Phone tapping....Discuss!
ROzbeans
19 years ago
Yeah but brazillians are hot.
Sergon
19 years ago
This is some of what I was getting at. The media is the other half of the equation.
S
Vulash;68558
Charisma
This is some of what I was getting at. The media is the other half of the equation.
S
Prosecution
19 years ago
Actually, my point on China was their hot economy has fueled their demand for energy, in such that they are using something on the order of 3x the energy they were using during Clinton's era. They are now #2 in energy usage just behind us, and will eclipse us in the next 10 years. As for the Middle East, my point was a kidnapping in the Gaza strip is used to justify a $3/barrel rate hike these days. All based on what if's." What if Isreal uses this excuse to bomb Bakalaka Street in Iran. OMG NO MORE OIL!!!" All what if's, conjecture and speculation. The pundits cry wolf, and my prices go up. Personally I don't believe them any more.
They cost us significantly less. Less troop involvment, but more importantly we had world support in those operations, with other nations (besides England) giving us troops supplies and money. Afghanistan is not a sticking point because we have UN support there. On top of that we have significantly less troop commitment there at the moment. Once again it comes down to money and politics. It cost us less, used less troops, and we were able to get out. With the last factor being the most important. There is no dead line for us pulling out of Iraq. Money, time commitment, and no way out is making Iraq unpopular with the American people.
Yes extra money. Under Clinton, our countries debt was signficantly reduced, and we a budget surplus his last year in office. But these effects go deeper then just the military. More money refers to more people earning more, higher incomes, lower unemployment. More money means life is easier for the majority of people in this country. The fact is the 90's were a boom time for this country, and during boomtimes, people are happier. So yes the military got a slice of that extra money as well. Now that the surplus is gone, there will be cuts.
Because investor speculation is something Bush can directly control. He can propose laws to address our current energy problem besides lets go digging for more oil. He can work to control prices, and if necessary regulate the industry. Teen pregnancy is not as easy as to control. Its all about controlables. What can Bush affect in his job, what can't he affect. You falling down the stairs in the morning is not Bush's fault. The lack of initative to do something about our energy situation for the next 10 years is his fault. I am not asking for a fix for tomorrow, I am seriously looking 10 years from now. We have few large oil fields left untapped in this world. And the ones that are their are in remote/hard to reach areas. China is going to eclipse our energy usage in the next 10 years, and India isn't too far behind them. With the world oil production falling, what are we going to do to fix this situation. Digging in Alaska is not the answer. That represents less then 3% of our total energy needs. Its like putting a bandaid over a bullet wound. My problem here is I see no foward thinking by Bush, his adminstration, Congress, or just about anyone except Walmart. Walmart is looking to get into the energy business over the next 10 years, so they are exploring ET85 and other non-traditional markets. I hate to say it but, for once I am for Walmart. They are doing it out of their own self intrest, but finding a renewable affordable energy source would make that company billions, and they want all the money that it can bring.
Now your putting words in my mouth. I said why people ignored it, I didn't say it was right. What I called for at the end of my post was a change in the type of leadership we had in this country, and refered to some great presidents. Not Clinton, or Bush. Roosevelt, Kennedy, Lincoln, Washington. We need a damn change.
At no time should anyone be denied their basic civil rights for any reason. Once we take it from one person, your next. Just remember that. The bill of rights should be set in stone and protected at all times. Taking someones rights away is flat Wrong, each and every time it happens.
BTW I was using Brazil's energy policy, as they are not dependant on forgien oil as of 2004. And yes I can take issue with Clinton or any one else for that matter. My post was a call for change in the leadership in this country, and I addressed not just the president, but members of congress who have been in place Pre-Clinton. We need a damn change in our thinking in this country, and the only way we will get it is with new blood.
Vebran;68570
It is interesting to think that you feel that events occuring in Israel/Lebanon have no effect on the stability of the rest of the Middle East and that we have that strong of an influence over the Chinese economy
Actually, my point on China was their hot economy has fueled their demand for energy, in such that they are using something on the order of 3x the energy they were using during Clinton's era. They are now #2 in energy usage just behind us, and will eclipse us in the next 10 years. As for the Middle East, my point was a kidnapping in the Gaza strip is used to justify a $3/barrel rate hike these days. All based on what if's." What if Isreal uses this excuse to bomb Bakalaka Street in Iran. OMG NO MORE OIL!!!" All what if's, conjecture and speculation. The pundits cry wolf, and my prices go up. Personally I don't believe them any more.
Vebran
No of course not, oh wait, Panama "Action", Haiti "Action", US troops in Kosovo, Somaila, Air Strikes on Iraq. Nope, those things didn't cost us a dime, no sir.
They cost us significantly less. Less troop involvment, but more importantly we had world support in those operations, with other nations (besides England) giving us troops supplies and money. Afghanistan is not a sticking point because we have UN support there. On top of that we have significantly less troop commitment there at the moment. Once again it comes down to money and politics. It cost us less, used less troops, and we were able to get out. With the last factor being the most important. There is no dead line for us pulling out of Iraq. Money, time commitment, and no way out is making Iraq unpopular with the American people.
vebran
Extra money? Funny because I was under the impression that it was Clinton who was responsible for the increased spending for weapons platforms, F-22, JSF, C-17, etc(much needed as they are) and that it was during the Bush administration that massive personnel cuts are being brought forward (required by law) and the newest round of BRAC cuts.
Yes extra money. Under Clinton, our countries debt was signficantly reduced, and we a budget surplus his last year in office. But these effects go deeper then just the military. More money refers to more people earning more, higher incomes, lower unemployment. More money means life is easier for the majority of people in this country. The fact is the 90's were a boom time for this country, and during boomtimes, people are happier. So yes the military got a slice of that extra money as well. Now that the surplus is gone, there will be cuts.
vebran
Seriously WTF does this have to do with the price of tea in China? I mean that is like attributing the rate of birth during someone's administration as a reflection of their policies. "Oh no, teen pregnancy is up 3% because of the Bush adminstration". Investor speculation is more to blame for the rise of real estate prices.
Because investor speculation is something Bush can directly control. He can propose laws to address our current energy problem besides lets go digging for more oil. He can work to control prices, and if necessary regulate the industry. Teen pregnancy is not as easy as to control. Its all about controlables. What can Bush affect in his job, what can't he affect. You falling down the stairs in the morning is not Bush's fault. The lack of initative to do something about our energy situation for the next 10 years is his fault. I am not asking for a fix for tomorrow, I am seriously looking 10 years from now. We have few large oil fields left untapped in this world. And the ones that are their are in remote/hard to reach areas. China is going to eclipse our energy usage in the next 10 years, and India isn't too far behind them. With the world oil production falling, what are we going to do to fix this situation. Digging in Alaska is not the answer. That represents less then 3% of our total energy needs. Its like putting a bandaid over a bullet wound. My problem here is I see no foward thinking by Bush, his adminstration, Congress, or just about anyone except Walmart. Walmart is looking to get into the energy business over the next 10 years, so they are exploring ET85 and other non-traditional markets. I hate to say it but, for once I am for Walmart. They are doing it out of their own self intrest, but finding a renewable affordable energy source would make that company billions, and they want all the money that it can bring.
vebran
So basically you are saying that it is quite alright for the president to skirt the law when people are fat, dumb, and happy?
Now your putting words in my mouth. I said why people ignored it, I didn't say it was right. What I called for at the end of my post was a change in the type of leadership we had in this country, and refered to some great presidents. Not Clinton, or Bush. Roosevelt, Kennedy, Lincoln, Washington. We need a damn change.
vebran
Once people are no longer placated and actually have to find something that gives them reason to be pissed off then it is an issue? You have just proven why some people should have their "civil rights" taken away.
At no time should anyone be denied their basic civil rights for any reason. Once we take it from one person, your next. Just remember that. The bill of rights should be set in stone and protected at all times. Taking someones rights away is flat Wrong, each and every time it happens.
vebran
If you cannot take issue with something because someone has more charisma, seemingly provides you with more toys and creatures comforts, (basically keeping you fat, dumb, and happy) then you have no right whatsoever to complain about things when they go wrong.
Oh, and I'm sure that following the economic model of Brazil is a blueprint for success.
BTW I was using Brazil's energy policy, as they are not dependant on forgien oil as of 2004. And yes I can take issue with Clinton or any one else for that matter. My post was a call for change in the leadership in this country, and I addressed not just the president, but members of congress who have been in place Pre-Clinton. We need a damn change in our thinking in this country, and the only way we will get it is with new blood.
Keriath
19 years ago
Tell that to people who lost loved ones on sept 11th. You think that if taping someones phone would have saved over 3000 civilians lives that the gov wouldn't have done it? And even if they had then i would have to read about how the gov was in the "wrong" because they violated someones civil rights. Not even taking into account that they just saved a couple thousand ppl in the mean time.
Prosecution;68573
At no time should anyone be denied their basic civil rights for any reason. Once we take it from one person, your next. Just remember that. The bill of rights should be set in stone and protected at all times. Taking someones rights away is flat Wrong, each and every time it happens.
Tell that to people who lost loved ones on sept 11th. You think that if taping someones phone would have saved over 3000 civilians lives that the gov wouldn't have done it? And even if they had then i would have to read about how the gov was in the "wrong" because they violated someones civil rights. Not even taking into account that they just saved a couple thousand ppl in the mean time.
Prosecution
19 years ago
Quote tell that to the hundreds of thousands of family members who have lost a loved one in war, fighting for those rights you would so easily cast aside. Frankly if you are willing to sacrfice your basic rights so quickly and easily, do not be suprised if you wake up one day with the clothes you will wear laid out for you by a governmental representative. Sacrificing peoples rights because the CIA/NSA/Intelligence communtiy didn't have its act in order is frankly an unacceptable answer. So yeah, I will say that to people who lost loved ones during Sept 11th. But can you say that to someone who's family member willing died to defend those rights as inalienable? The ends do not justify the means. Doing what is morally right means doing what is right no matter the outcome. You play fair, you play by the rules (Geneva Convention), even though your enemy does not. That is what gives you the moral high ground. We lost that in Iraq (torture), in Gitanimo(illegal imprisonment), and on the phone tapping (violating citizens rights). To you I ask one simple question. As soon as we stop playing by the rules, and giving up the rights of our citizens, how does that make us any different then the Taliban, who are supposed to be evil?
Keriath;68575
Tell that to people who lost loved ones on sept 11th. You think that if taping someones phone would have saved over 3000 civilians lives that the gov wouldn't have done it? And even if they had then i would have to read about how the gov was in the "wrong" because they violated someones civil rights. Not even taking into account that they just saved a couple thousand ppl in the mean time.
Quote tell that to the hundreds of thousands of family members who have lost a loved one in war, fighting for those rights you would so easily cast aside. Frankly if you are willing to sacrfice your basic rights so quickly and easily, do not be suprised if you wake up one day with the clothes you will wear laid out for you by a governmental representative. Sacrificing peoples rights because the CIA/NSA/Intelligence communtiy didn't have its act in order is frankly an unacceptable answer. So yeah, I will say that to people who lost loved ones during Sept 11th. But can you say that to someone who's family member willing died to defend those rights as inalienable? The ends do not justify the means. Doing what is morally right means doing what is right no matter the outcome. You play fair, you play by the rules (Geneva Convention), even though your enemy does not. That is what gives you the moral high ground. We lost that in Iraq (torture), in Gitanimo(illegal imprisonment), and on the phone tapping (violating citizens rights). To you I ask one simple question. As soon as we stop playing by the rules, and giving up the rights of our citizens, how does that make us any different then the Taliban, who are supposed to be evil?
Vulash
19 years ago
How are you defining basic rights? Someone's rights are getting stepped on or violated no matter what. You can't get around that. Again it's a matter of to what degree, and protecting which is more important.
There are hundreds of ways we are different then the Taliban - that question is dumb. It sounds pretty for media, but it's dumb.
There are hundreds of ways we are different then the Taliban - that question is dumb. It sounds pretty for media, but it's dumb.
Vebran
19 years ago
You are straying too far from the basic topic. Energy, education, spending etc, has no business within this context. (I must admit that I got caught up momentarily). Back to the issue at hand though, basic rights? I see nothing within the bill of rights that states that you can't wire tap. If you want to argue that it must be updated with the time then you have to acknowledge the basic malleability of the document and how it must adjust and adapt to fit the current social and world climate.
You can't even argue that wiretapping falls within the first since people still have the right to speak however they feel like. The fourth because they are not searching/seizing your words etc. So the basic arguement that it violates the rights of people, if kept within the strictest definitions as set forth by the bill of rights holds no water. If you wish to accomodate for the situation then it can be changed by whoever interpets it in their own way.
Prosecution;68578
Quote
You are straying too far from the basic topic. Energy, education, spending etc, has no business within this context. (I must admit that I got caught up momentarily). Back to the issue at hand though, basic rights? I see nothing within the bill of rights that states that you can't wire tap. If you want to argue that it must be updated with the time then you have to acknowledge the basic malleability of the document and how it must adjust and adapt to fit the current social and world climate.
You can't even argue that wiretapping falls within the first since people still have the right to speak however they feel like. The fourth because they are not searching/seizing your words etc. So the basic arguement that it violates the rights of people, if kept within the strictest definitions as set forth by the bill of rights holds no water. If you wish to accomodate for the situation then it can be changed by whoever interpets it in their own way.
Prosecution
19 years ago
To answer your question, basic rights as defined by the bill of rights. And yes the question stated was bit extreme but its to bring up a very valid point. If we give up the basic right of privacy, which one goes next, and once we start taking away the rights of our citizens, how does that make us different then the tyrants we fight. Remember this is about the spread of democracy. My point is that the end does not justify the means, and I expect our leaders in this country to do things the right way. So you can't get out of the question just by calling it dumb this time around.
Vulash;68581
How are you defining basic rights? Someone's rights are getting stepped on or violated no matter what. You can't get around that. Again it's a matter of to what degree, and protecting which is more important.
There are hundreds of ways we are different then the Taliban - that question is dumb. It sounds pretty for media, but it's dumb.
To answer your question, basic rights as defined by the bill of rights. And yes the question stated was bit extreme but its to bring up a very valid point. If we give up the basic right of privacy, which one goes next, and once we start taking away the rights of our citizens, how does that make us different then the tyrants we fight. Remember this is about the spread of democracy. My point is that the end does not justify the means, and I expect our leaders in this country to do things the right way. So you can't get out of the question just by calling it dumb this time around.
Mylec
19 years ago
Ok, they are one of the most powerful terrorist org's in the world. I'll give you that one for now. And? An ant may be the most powerful insect in the world but I can still squash its ass. If they are so powerful, why are they not ruling in the open? In their own land? Sorry, but I could have sent 4 people to flight school and had 4 groups of people all get on planes on the same day. I'm not minimalizing the devastation they caused to people, but that doesn't exactly make them a huge superpower. It makes them a relatively small group of people.
Why bomb Afghanistan? They didnt blow up anything. Before you say "that's where he was hiding!!", would we blow up San Diego if we thought he was hiding there? And while you're at it, why not bomb Saudi Arabia since most of the bombers were from there? That in itself is another topic.
Dont think I mentioned Clinton, so this is probably to someone else.
Sure, I did. But where does it end? With wiretaps? Hardly. Next it would be random requests for identification on the street. After all, what is an occasional search or identification compared against national security? Better yet, lets just have everyone lojacked so we dont have to inconvience anyone with being stopped while we are at it. Still sounds good, right? I could play devil's advocate all day here, but I think you get my point.
Lets be clear here, Keriath. I have respect for any military personnel that sign up to serve their country and do what is asked of them. But WTF do you think you are to assume that just because you serve in the military, you are entitled to more freedom or rights than I am? My pedestal is the Constitution, just like yours, and it gives me the right to complain about anything I want, REGARDLESS OF MILITARY SERVICE. You dont have to like my opinions, Keri, but I still have the right to voice them. That is one of the things that make this country great. We have the right to openly disagree. I suck with authors of quotes, but I believe it was Patrick Henry who said "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".
Every man that signed the Declaration of Independence was basically signing his own death warrant. They were considered traitors of the home world and sought out for execution. Obviously these were not men that were overly concerned about personal safety, they were concerned about personal freedom.
Oh, and Serg. Once again, are we going with the "well...look what Clinton did!" excuse for the actions of Bush? :p
Keriath;68566
Really? there not that powerful? That coulda fooled me. Sorry Mylec but you don't know wtf your talking about here. Al qedea is one of the most powerful terrosist org's in the world.
Ok, they are one of the most powerful terrorist org's in the world. I'll give you that one for now. And? An ant may be the most powerful insect in the world but I can still squash its ass. If they are so powerful, why are they not ruling in the open? In their own land? Sorry, but I could have sent 4 people to flight school and had 4 groups of people all get on planes on the same day. I'm not minimalizing the devastation they caused to people, but that doesn't exactly make them a huge superpower. It makes them a relatively small group of people.
Keriath;68566
So pros, what should we have done then with afghaistan? Since invading another country is bad. Should we have just said " Oh its ok let usama stay there. We will forget what happened its no big deal."
Why bomb Afghanistan? They didnt blow up anything. Before you say "that's where he was hiding!!", would we blow up San Diego if we thought he was hiding there? And while you're at it, why not bomb Saudi Arabia since most of the bombers were from there? That in itself is another topic.
Keriath;68566
Clinton the greatest leader we can ever have... yeah right the dude was a FUCKING LIAR. He should be in a fucking prison right now rotting away.
Dont think I mentioned Clinton, so this is probably to someone else.
Keriath;68566
And if giving up some of MY civil liberties that I WENT overseas twice to combat zones to defend for YOU as well is what it takes then i am all for it. Why you ask. Becuase its simple if by giving up a little bit keeps the whole of the country safe. Guess what that means NO troops will have to go to a hostile country. Guess you didn't consider that one thou did you?
Sure, I did. But where does it end? With wiretaps? Hardly. Next it would be random requests for identification on the street. After all, what is an occasional search or identification compared against national security? Better yet, lets just have everyone lojacked so we dont have to inconvience anyone with being stopped while we are at it. Still sounds good, right? I could play devil's advocate all day here, but I think you get my point.
Keriath;68566
And this is just my opnionin here but imma give it anyway. unless you have done something to defend those rights we all have. You have a very small pedestal to be standing on when you bitch about them being taken away.
Lets be clear here, Keriath. I have respect for any military personnel that sign up to serve their country and do what is asked of them. But WTF do you think you are to assume that just because you serve in the military, you are entitled to more freedom or rights than I am? My pedestal is the Constitution, just like yours, and it gives me the right to complain about anything I want, REGARDLESS OF MILITARY SERVICE. You dont have to like my opinions, Keri, but I still have the right to voice them. That is one of the things that make this country great. We have the right to openly disagree. I suck with authors of quotes, but I believe it was Patrick Henry who said "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".
Every man that signed the Declaration of Independence was basically signing his own death warrant. They were considered traitors of the home world and sought out for execution. Obviously these were not men that were overly concerned about personal safety, they were concerned about personal freedom.
Oh, and Serg. Once again, are we going with the "well...look what Clinton did!" excuse for the actions of Bush? :p
Sergon
19 years ago
Nope Im just pointing out that its nothing different and it is only being propogated by the media and thier hatred for Bush. I just find the hipocracy very entertaining. I also do not have a problem with the government tapping my phone conversations. I have nothing to hide. It's just a difference of opinion. As I have stated before Im an independent conservative. I did not vote for Bush.
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Mylec
19 years ago
I am not a member of the democratic or republican party. I consider myself to be a fiscal conservative and social democrat lol. I just dont see a reason to give up my expectation of privacy on a telephone in the name of national security. Not that I am involved in anything illegal on the phone to be concerned about, its just the principle of the thing. Is it too much to ask for probable cause for a wiretap anymore? I dont think so. I think give an inch, take a mile. Its a bad idea to start surrendering freedom and rights to the government IMO.
I can see the other side of the point. I understand the desire for security and to catch bad guys, I just dont think we have to take away the rights of innocent people to do it. Its kinda funny with the timing of this topic. I was in Tampa for a week, I just got home. While I was down there, Vit and I watched V for Vendetta. The similarities in concept made me laugh. Then to top it off, on the flight home I picked up a copy of Dan Brown's Digital Fortress book (great read, btw. page turner, like A&D and DaVinci) and the premise of the story is exactly what this thread is about. Almost done with the book, will probably finish it tonight so if you read it, no spoilers! :p
I can see the other side of the point. I understand the desire for security and to catch bad guys, I just dont think we have to take away the rights of innocent people to do it. Its kinda funny with the timing of this topic. I was in Tampa for a week, I just got home. While I was down there, Vit and I watched V for Vendetta. The similarities in concept made me laugh. Then to top it off, on the flight home I picked up a copy of Dan Brown's Digital Fortress book (great read, btw. page turner, like A&D and DaVinci) and the premise of the story is exactly what this thread is about. Almost done with the book, will probably finish it tonight so if you read it, no spoilers! :p
ROzbeans
19 years ago
Roger that.
Lets be clear here, Keriath. I have respect for any military personnel that sign up to serve their country and do what is asked of them. But WTF do you think you are to assume that just because you serve in the military, you are entitled to more freedom or rights than I am? My pedestal is the Constitution, just like yours, and it gives me the right to complain about anything I want, REGARDLESS OF MILITARY SERVICE. You dont have to like my opinions, Keri, but I still have the right to voice them. That is one of the things that make this country great. We have the right to openly disagree. I suck with authors of quotes, but I believe it was Patrick Henry who said "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".
Roger that.
Prosecution
19 years ago
I was discussing this exact topic with one of my friends over a beer, and it dawned on me exactly what I took issue with. Here's the problem:
Its not that the phones are being tapped, its how they are tapped. They are being tapped without a warrent. There are legal processes that are in place which must occur for a wire/phone tap to be put in place. Instead the current administration has decided to do an end run around the law and put some of these wire taps into place in secret. The fact is, any American citizen arrested with evidence from these taps could have the case dropped the same day because of the violation of the right to privacy. I think its the general arrogance by which some of these politicans so lightly cast the law aside that infurates so many of us. Clinton did it by lying to us. Regan had his Iran-Contra affair. When our leaders attempt to circumvent the law, what power does the law hold to the rest of us? We are a society of order and laws, or would atleast like to think so. Our leaders need to be held accountable, just like the rest of us, and when they aren't held accountable, that calls our entire legal system into question.
That I think is the problem. Not the idea of wire tapping, but the fact that its done illegally.
Its not that the phones are being tapped, its how they are tapped. They are being tapped without a warrent. There are legal processes that are in place which must occur for a wire/phone tap to be put in place. Instead the current administration has decided to do an end run around the law and put some of these wire taps into place in secret. The fact is, any American citizen arrested with evidence from these taps could have the case dropped the same day because of the violation of the right to privacy. I think its the general arrogance by which some of these politicans so lightly cast the law aside that infurates so many of us. Clinton did it by lying to us. Regan had his Iran-Contra affair. When our leaders attempt to circumvent the law, what power does the law hold to the rest of us? We are a society of order and laws, or would atleast like to think so. Our leaders need to be held accountable, just like the rest of us, and when they aren't held accountable, that calls our entire legal system into question.
That I think is the problem. Not the idea of wire tapping, but the fact that its done illegally.
Keriath
19 years ago
Mylec i will use your own statement against you. In my quote it clearly stated that In My Opnion.. You can disagree with it all you want. fact is thats the way i feel regarding the matter.
Also on the topic that you could send 4 people to flight school and get them trained to hijack four ariliners. I guess you think its fairly easy to do such a thing. Which boggles me. It shows your ignorance of how intricte these orginaztions are.
pros your big deal here is that your phone conversations could be tapped. So my question to you is do you carry around a STU phone? A encrypted cell phone perhaps? If you answered this as a "no" which is what i suspect the answer is, then any phone call you make can be tapped. Wireless is a little more complictaed but still doable by anyone with the knowledge or guess what the internet. And don't even get me started on land based lines. i can tell you how to tap one with 6 bucks worth of stuff purchased at any hardware store.
Also on the topic that you could send 4 people to flight school and get them trained to hijack four ariliners. I guess you think its fairly easy to do such a thing. Which boggles me. It shows your ignorance of how intricte these orginaztions are.
pros your big deal here is that your phone conversations could be tapped. So my question to you is do you carry around a STU phone? A encrypted cell phone perhaps? If you answered this as a "no" which is what i suspect the answer is, then any phone call you make can be tapped. Wireless is a little more complictaed but still doable by anyone with the knowledge or guess what the internet. And don't even get me started on land based lines. i can tell you how to tap one with 6 bucks worth of stuff purchased at any hardware store.
Mylec
19 years ago
I know that is your opinion. I was just stating your opinion is incorrect.,.IMO! :p
Yeah, I do think its fairly easy. Cause it is. All you need to send someone to flight school is money. Give 4 groups of people plane tickets, box cutters and some basic unarmed combat skills. That's difficult? You act like they are fucking Delta Force or something. They were up against average citizens. I'm willing to bet someone in the military like yourself could handle yourself pretty freakin well against the average citizen. Yet even these extremely well trained, highly polished terrorists failed 1 out of 4 attempts and got rocked by everyday schmoes who were unarmed.
Sad thing is, it would still be easy. Just Monday on my flight home, a woman in first class got on board with a bottled water. After everything that JUST happened, and with every ticket counter giving the same speech before each boarding that "Due to TSA increased security measures, no liquid or aerosol items will be allowed on board. Any drinks purchased in the terminal must be consumed or discarded prior to boarding". And there she sat with her big bottle of water. Unbelievable.
Keriath;68670
Mylec i will use your own statement against you. In my quote it clearly stated that In My Opnion.. You can disagree with it all you want. fact is thats the way i feel regarding the matter.
I know that is your opinion. I was just stating your opinion is incorrect.,.IMO! :p
Keriath;68670
Also on the topic that you could send 4 people to flight school and get them trained to hijack four ariliners. I guess you think its fairly easy to do such a thing. Which boggles me. It shows your ignorance of how intricte these orginaztions are.
Yeah, I do think its fairly easy. Cause it is. All you need to send someone to flight school is money. Give 4 groups of people plane tickets, box cutters and some basic unarmed combat skills. That's difficult? You act like they are fucking Delta Force or something. They were up against average citizens. I'm willing to bet someone in the military like yourself could handle yourself pretty freakin well against the average citizen. Yet even these extremely well trained, highly polished terrorists failed 1 out of 4 attempts and got rocked by everyday schmoes who were unarmed.
Sad thing is, it would still be easy. Just Monday on my flight home, a woman in first class got on board with a bottled water. After everything that JUST happened, and with every ticket counter giving the same speech before each boarding that "Due to TSA increased security measures, no liquid or aerosol items will be allowed on board. Any drinks purchased in the terminal must be consumed or discarded prior to boarding". And there she sat with her big bottle of water. Unbelievable.
Prosecution
19 years ago
Its the fact that its being done illegally, and the general disregard for the law. Our leaders need to be accountable just like all of us. Clinton for perjury, Bush for illegal wire taps (and otherwise wiping his ass with the constitution in the name of 9/11 and terrorists), Regan for Iran-Contra. The last President actually held accountable for his actions seems to be Nixon, who at least resigned when the hot water he was in started to boil. Instead there is a new trend of just shrugging off the law if your an elected offical, and doing what ever you want. You think Clinton got the name Slick Willy for nothing? My problem is our leaders are not role models any more. They are liars, crooks, and crimals. How about DeLay in Texas? If I bothered to go and research this some more, I know that in recent press (IE this year) atleast 2 or 3 members of congress are facing jail time. for their actions. And those are just the ones who are caught and exposed. Where the hell is the accountablility?
Actually I doubt that you could tap my phone. Mainly because all I have is a cell phone. Saves me $25/month not to have a landline, and even more not to have a long distance carrier. But as for the $6 and a receiver, yeah thats easy enough. Just splice it in and listen. Since my apartment maintence people are on the ball, I have had to repair a phone jack before. So yes, I know how easy it is.
Keriath;68670
pros your big deal here is that your phone conversations could be tapped.
Prosecution
Its not that the phones are being tapped, its how they are tapped. They are being tapped without a warrent
Its the fact that its being done illegally, and the general disregard for the law. Our leaders need to be accountable just like all of us. Clinton for perjury, Bush for illegal wire taps (and otherwise wiping his ass with the constitution in the name of 9/11 and terrorists), Regan for Iran-Contra. The last President actually held accountable for his actions seems to be Nixon, who at least resigned when the hot water he was in started to boil. Instead there is a new trend of just shrugging off the law if your an elected offical, and doing what ever you want. You think Clinton got the name Slick Willy for nothing? My problem is our leaders are not role models any more. They are liars, crooks, and crimals. How about DeLay in Texas? If I bothered to go and research this some more, I know that in recent press (IE this year) atleast 2 or 3 members of congress are facing jail time. for their actions. And those are just the ones who are caught and exposed. Where the hell is the accountablility?
Keriath
So my question to you is do you carry around a STU phone? A encrypted cell phone perhaps? If you answered this as a "no" which is what i suspect the answer is, then any phone call you make can be tapped. Wireless is a little more complictaed but still doable by anyone with the knowledge or guess what the internet. And don't even get me started on land based lines. i can tell you how to tap one with 6 bucks worth of stuff purchased at any hardware store.
Actually I doubt that you could tap my phone. Mainly because all I have is a cell phone. Saves me $25/month not to have a landline, and even more not to have a long distance carrier. But as for the $6 and a receiver, yeah thats easy enough. Just splice it in and listen. Since my apartment maintence people are on the ball, I have had to repair a phone jack before. So yes, I know how easy it is.
Sergon
19 years ago
Heh How about
Ray Nagin
Cynthia McKinney
The list could go on and on and on............
S
Ray Nagin
Cynthia McKinney
The list could go on and on and on............
S