My kids are really young still but for me the answer is yes, protect them. If they had a vaccine for AIDS the answer would be yes. Or any other disease. Just like hepititis (spelling sorry!) which children are given a vaccine for and can be contracted through bodily fluids. Maybe that vaccine seems safer because it's give at birth or shortly there after.
I'm not gonna hand my daughters a box of condoms and tell them to go at it with the first boy that they meet but I sure as shit feel it's my responsibility to inform them. No one as a parent wants to have their child get sick and no one wants their child to have sex before the emotional repercussions are able to be dealt with but it happens. It happens every day in every place. Regardless of how you raise your child it's always there. There will be some children that will take their parents example and advice and adhere to it strictly and there are those that want to know for themselves what the big deal is.
When it comes to your childs health I think we all want to protect them and if this vaccine is safe and without future side effects I will give it to my daughters. At 11-12 years of age I think (for me) it would be an appropriate time to discuss sex, love, and the whole freak show of adulthood. By that time most girls are in puberty and the issues will be on the table anyway.
This is about disease and death prevention not sex.
*shrug* I hope that made any sense I'm still half asleep! :P
The HPV Vaccine
I'm not sure if we've discussed this yet or not, so I'm bringing it up. (If we have feel free to direct me to the thread and I'll be quiet in this one.)
This is an article on what HPV is:
HPV
Several articles on the HPV Vaccine Debate:
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20070523/hpv-vaccine-few-parents-back-mandate?src=RSS_PUBLIC
http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070521/COLUMN40/705210332
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=71650&nfid=rssfeeds
http://www.dailybulletin.com/living/ci_5945198
Ok so basically the entire debate stems around two things. Whether or not giving this to our girls will give them a mental free pass for promiscuity and Should it or should it not be state mandated.
The Christian right-wing is up in arms over giving children a vaccine against something that is only ever sexually transmitted, while the conservative parent is stuck on the idea that what if the child stays chaste and marries a man who is carrying HPV and she then contracts the disease, gets cervical cancer and dies because she never had this vaccine.
There are those that believe that our children should be protected from everything we can protect them from and if it means giving them a vaccine for an STD then that is what we should do. Of course there are others who are adamantly against vaccines due to the rare cases of adverse effects from the shots, and actually prefer that there children not be vaccinated and that if they are exposed then they are and that medical science is advanced enough to see them through it.
There are several states that have already mandated this or have tried and it was shot down by the legislature. Some are simply focusing on parent education and leaving it up to the families. This has become a platform for deep seated political debates, about much broader issues.
I am not here to talk about whether or not to vaccinate our children, but I would like to know how you view this particular issue. Is it worth the risk of promiscuity to save our daughters from cervical cancer and vaccinate them? Should it be state mandated (meaning that your child can not attend school unless they have this shot series)? Or should states simply focus on educating parents, and hope against hope that they'll do the right thing and get their daughters vaccinated? Should we be starting frank discussions about sexual activity with our girls over a shot? Is it even necessary to even tell your 11-12 year old what the shot is for or just tell her "it's just another shot and to bend over, bare your butt, and brace yourself, this is going to sting?"
Laschae
17 years ago
Verity
17 years ago
Warning: possible offensive view posted, with language... don't say you weren't warned! BTW, I suck at trying to get my point across :P
Nope.. I don't think it's necessary to tell them what it's for at all. Especially at that age. If those right wing christians are so worried about their kids being promiscious from getting the shot, then don't say what it's for.
EDIT: Laschae is very right about it being a good time to talk to your kids about Sex, love & adulthood, the previous comment was for those religious freaks who won't do it because of something that *MIGHT* happen. (IE, sex before marriage)
Alot of the extreme views by people (christians or whomever), tend to focus on one little thing, but they won't open their eyes & see the big picture.
I personally think it should be state mandated to get the shots. Why should these children suffer as adults because of some stupid f*cking religious beliefs (sorry if anyone is religious, don't mean to offend)
My OB told me when I was Preggo with my last little one, that almost 90% of sexually active women have HPV. Pretty god damn scary if you ask me. My sister has had a considerable amount of her cervex removed, due to abnormal cells caused by HPV. Her chances of getting cancer from it in the future are pretty high. If this vaccine had been around when we were young, and my parents hadn't vaccinated us girls against it, because of their f*cked up beliefs, I would find it extremely hard to ever forgive them.
I have a 16 year old sister, who I *HOPE* my parents have had her vaccinated, or are planning on in the near future. Cause if they don't, I'll take her myself & get it done. And I personally plan on Getting my 2 daughters vaccinated when they're of age.
Is it even necessary to even tell your 11-12 year old what the shot is for or just tell her "it's just another shot and to bend over, bare your butt, and brace yourself, this is going to sting?"
Nope.. I don't think it's necessary to tell them what it's for at all. Especially at that age. If those right wing christians are so worried about their kids being promiscious from getting the shot, then don't say what it's for.
EDIT: Laschae is very right about it being a good time to talk to your kids about Sex, love & adulthood, the previous comment was for those religious freaks who won't do it because of something that *MIGHT* happen. (IE, sex before marriage)
Alot of the extreme views by people (christians or whomever), tend to focus on one little thing, but they won't open their eyes & see the big picture.
/Big Picture on
what if the child stays chaste and marries a man who is carrying HPV and she then contracts the disease, gets cervical cancer anddies
because she never had this vaccine.
/Big picture off
I personally think it should be state mandated to get the shots. Why should these children suffer as adults because of some stupid f*cking religious beliefs (sorry if anyone is religious, don't mean to offend)
My OB told me when I was Preggo with my last little one, that almost 90% of sexually active women have HPV. Pretty god damn scary if you ask me. My sister has had a considerable amount of her cervex removed, due to abnormal cells caused by HPV. Her chances of getting cancer from it in the future are pretty high. If this vaccine had been around when we were young, and my parents hadn't vaccinated us girls against it, because of their f*cked up beliefs, I would find it extremely hard to ever forgive them.
I have a 16 year old sister, who I *HOPE* my parents have had her vaccinated, or are planning on in the near future. Cause if they don't, I'll take her myself & get it done. And I personally plan on Getting my 2 daughters vaccinated when they're of age.
Den
17 years ago
Kinda hard to talk about this, and not voice an opinion on whether or not we believe in vaccinating...
My stance is with those who say if there is a potential for cancer, and we can vaccinate against it, do it. Kids are required to get mumps, diptheria, tuberculosis, etc., vaccines before school, so what's another one? The fact that the disease is transmitted sexually shouldn't enter into the scenario, unless a parent is 100% sure their daughter won't have sex between puberty and ... 25 years old?
(I say 25, because my daughter was recently told that was the cutoff age, before the vaccine wouldn't be beneficial)
I certainly don't think that it should send a message to the girls that they can now have all the sex they want, and any age. And, if parents raise their daughters with a good sense of self, and morality, I don't think that would be a risk.
As for the state mandating the vaccine, again I refer back to those they already require.
One of the biggest arguments I've heard against Texas' position is the cost...$200 a shot. Seems to me anything made mandatory also needs to be made affordable. There are too many people out there, with school age girls, who just can't afford that kind of expenditure. So, unfortunately, until they do either subsidize the cost, I would have to agree it shouldn't be mandatory.
My stance is with those who say if there is a potential for cancer, and we can vaccinate against it, do it. Kids are required to get mumps, diptheria, tuberculosis, etc., vaccines before school, so what's another one? The fact that the disease is transmitted sexually shouldn't enter into the scenario, unless a parent is 100% sure their daughter won't have sex between puberty and ... 25 years old?
(I say 25, because my daughter was recently told that was the cutoff age, before the vaccine wouldn't be beneficial)
I certainly don't think that it should send a message to the girls that they can now have all the sex they want, and any age. And, if parents raise their daughters with a good sense of self, and morality, I don't think that would be a risk.
As for the state mandating the vaccine, again I refer back to those they already require.
One of the biggest arguments I've heard against Texas' position is the cost...$200 a shot. Seems to me anything made mandatory also needs to be made affordable. There are too many people out there, with school age girls, who just can't afford that kind of expenditure. So, unfortunately, until they do either subsidize the cost, I would have to agree it shouldn't be mandatory.
Laschae
17 years ago
$200 is bullshit. If the government mandates a shot then the cost ought to be affordable to the entire population. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
Verity
17 years ago
*sigh* I just got the bill for my daughter's last set of shots.....
Even with my insurance paying 60% of the cost, it was still almost $200 out of pocket for us... and that's for 2 shots
And yeah.. Rishing bullshit healthcare costs are a whole nother subject.
Laschae;79623
$200 is bullshit. If the government mandates a shot then the cost ought to be affordable to the entire population. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
*sigh* I just got the bill for my daughter's last set of shots.....
Even with my insurance paying 60% of the cost, it was still almost $200 out of pocket for us... and that's for 2 shots
And yeah.. Rishing bullshit healthcare costs are a whole nother subject.
ROzbeans
17 years ago
Religious leaders don't have to deal with my daughter dying of cervical cancer, therefore what they say in response to how I raise my daughter, or prepare her for past puberty, is none of their motherfucking business. It protects against cancer - that's all I needed to know. It's my responsibility to raise my daughter with personal morals and knowledge for what's out there - not anyone else. Certainly not religious leaders or the government.
Jinheim
17 years ago
I generally try to keep my views on religion to myself, because I'm pretty belligerent about it, but this is one of the subjects that makes me so mad that I just can't help myself.
Cervical cancer is an awful thing, and yet there are many many people out there who are willing to allow their daughters to go without being vaccinated so that the fear of HPV and the resulting cancer will keep them from having premarital sex. What kind of awful human being would use fear of a deadly disease to try and manipulate their own daughter into following a backwards and outdated moral code?
It's just like people who are thankful for AIDS because it kills homosexuals. It is wrong and evil, and is an example of how religious fundamentalism is actively harmful.
Cervical cancer is an awful thing, and yet there are many many people out there who are willing to allow their daughters to go without being vaccinated so that the fear of HPV and the resulting cancer will keep them from having premarital sex. What kind of awful human being would use fear of a deadly disease to try and manipulate their own daughter into following a backwards and outdated moral code?
It's just like people who are thankful for AIDS because it kills homosexuals. It is wrong and evil, and is an example of how religious fundamentalism is actively harmful.
Sarah
17 years ago
I have to say it is refreshing to hear my own views voiced. I've come to trust in the points-of-view of my fellow TACers and I'm glad I'm not the only one who not only will have her daughters vaccinated when they come of age, but have no intention of telling them what this shot is for. I do however plan to give them the Big Talk, around this time as well. Entering 6th grade seems to be the best time to talk about it beyond no one touches you in your swim suit area.
Verileah
17 years ago
Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but...any tips on 'the big talk?' We've covered the bare necessities and answer her questions honestly but there's going to be a need for something that goes beyond the daily dialogue. I don't think I ever got the talk but Are you there God? It's me, Margaret covered the relevant issues...for my mom's generation. Is there anything like that out there, but a little more updated, that could maybe kick off a dialogue?
I wouldn't be opposed to telling her what the vaccine was for - plenty of other horrible STDs I can use to scare the crap out of her.
Okay mostly kidding, but seriously, I doubt anyone has ever been about to get it on but then said 'wait...what if I get HPV? Better break out the condom or abstain!' It's more likely that they'd say 'what if I get sick or pregnant?' One vaccine isn't going to protect you from all STDs and honestly I don't see how there could be confusion about that.
I wouldn't be opposed to telling her what the vaccine was for - plenty of other horrible STDs I can use to scare the crap out of her.
Okay mostly kidding, but seriously, I doubt anyone has ever been about to get it on but then said 'wait...what if I get HPV? Better break out the condom or abstain!' It's more likely that they'd say 'what if I get sick or pregnant?' One vaccine isn't going to protect you from all STDs and honestly I don't see how there could be confusion about that.
Den
17 years ago
Where Did I Come From, by Peter Mayle, was what I used for my daughter, but I think she was only 6 or 7 - she was young. Yet the way this book is written, she got what she needed at the time, and it was done in a way that she was receptive to. We looked at it again every so often, up until she was about 9 or 10, and then she seemed to understand the 'process' well enough not to need it any more.
It is written in a way that slightly older children would still benefit from it, depending on their level of knowledge. If nothing else its worth checking out.
It is written in a way that slightly older children would still benefit from it, depending on their level of knowledge. If nothing else its worth checking out.
Vex
17 years ago
uh. it protects against 1 STD..
there's like 25+ more to worry about.
if kids see it as a free pass to fuck everyone, then.. well.. they should be de clitorized/neutered :P
there's like 25+ more to worry about.
if kids see it as a free pass to fuck everyone, then.. well.. they should be de clitorized/neutered :P
Sarah
17 years ago
Verileah:
d_bbs_sr_1/102-4319767-2708963?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179964134&sr=1-1">This book is a great place to start about talking about puberty, the changing body and menstruation.
d_bbs_sr_1/102-4319767-2708963?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179964259&sr=1-1"> This is a great book about the things you can expect at different ages and stages and how to broach sex and sexuality up through age 12. It's funny and light hearted, but incredibly informative.
I've not read This one but Richardson and Schuster generally put out incredibly informative books that are non-biased and easy to read.
Nor have I read this one, but Leman wrote Making Children Mind, Without Losing Yours, and I love that book.
However the best advice I've gotten from friends who's kids are past this point is to ask them what they know, what they think they know and how much they want to know. Your child knows what they are ready to hear and you know what they can handle. Be frank and honest and use the clinical terms where appropriate. It's difficult to get over the inhibition caused by not being brought up with the proper terms. I still have a difficult time saying penis out loud.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Sarah
d_bbs_sr_1/102-4319767-2708963?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179964134&sr=1-1">This book is a great place to start about talking about puberty, the changing body and menstruation.
d_bbs_sr_1/102-4319767-2708963?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179964259&sr=1-1"> This is a great book about the things you can expect at different ages and stages and how to broach sex and sexuality up through age 12. It's funny and light hearted, but incredibly informative.
I've not read This one but Richardson and Schuster generally put out incredibly informative books that are non-biased and easy to read.
Nor have I read this one, but Leman wrote Making Children Mind, Without Losing Yours, and I love that book.
However the best advice I've gotten from friends who's kids are past this point is to ask them what they know, what they think they know and how much they want to know. Your child knows what they are ready to hear and you know what they can handle. Be frank and honest and use the clinical terms where appropriate. It's difficult to get over the inhibition caused by not being brought up with the proper terms. I still have a difficult time saying penis out loud.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Sarah
Asha
17 years ago
I havn't really been following the news much lately, but over here the government has started to provide this shot free to all girls between the ages of 15 to 24 (or there abouts). All the parents need to do, is sign on the dotted line so its more a case of when they are expected to agree to it, not if.
I understand some girls have been having some not nice but not too serious reactions though.
I say educate these young women to empower their own lives and protect them from what you can in the mean time.
I understand some girls have been having some not nice but not too serious reactions though.
I say educate these young women to empower their own lives and protect them from what you can in the mean time.
ROzbeans
17 years ago
Catherine asked me what 'gay' meant yesterday. /sigh. I told her it was the same as being a homosexual - a discussion we had a couple weeks ago, but I asked her to tell me in what context did she hear it (in kid speak of course). She said someone told her that 'Gay people can't get married.'
My response, 'Well...technically, yes.' Grumble.
Why is my 7.5 year old asking me these questions now? I kind of hoped it would wait a couple more years but I know realistically every generation becomes self aware a little younger as the years go by. I'm trying to teach her tolerance - that you shouldn't judge people for who they love, you should just be happy that they can. I think she might have heard the terms in a homophobic discussion because she kind of reacted like she was surprised. She goes to before and after school care with older kids, as old as 10 and I'm shuddering at what they're exposing her to.
Give me my chubby baby back, please?
My response, 'Well...technically, yes.' Grumble.
Why is my 7.5 year old asking me these questions now? I kind of hoped it would wait a couple more years but I know realistically every generation becomes self aware a little younger as the years go by. I'm trying to teach her tolerance - that you shouldn't judge people for who they love, you should just be happy that they can. I think she might have heard the terms in a homophobic discussion because she kind of reacted like she was surprised. She goes to before and after school care with older kids, as old as 10 and I'm shuddering at what they're exposing her to.
Give me my chubby baby back, please?
FyreGarnett
17 years ago
i have HPV.
I have also had 2 annuals come back as abnormal. both required biopsies.
both required surgery.
none of the above were fun. i'm lucky - so far. all annuals in the last 7 years have come back clean. but i'm waiting for the last one.
i have an ongoing heightened risk for cervical cancer because i have already been treated twice for cervical dysplaisa.
so. i have a 7 year old daughter. from a purely medical standpoint, if she can be spared from the anxiety and terror i went through during those two times in my life, i say yes, vaccinate her now. does she need to know at this age why she's getting yet another shot? not really. if it was 10 years down the road and it was the latest vaccine, then yeah, i'd tell her if her doctor hadn't already. (now they need to come up with one that protects the boys from passing it along and make it fair!!!)
as far as this encouraging promiscuity - i sure didn't make it to graduation a virgin. i honestly do not expect any of my kids to be married as virgins. hell, i can only think of two couples in the last 15 years that i know for a fact didn't have sex before they got married (which frankly scared me - i just hope they had real good communication going to have some clue if they had similiar prefernces in that area.... but i digress). so the reality is that there's a pretty damn good chance that no matter what i tell them to do nor not to do, my kids ain't gonna be virgins and if they are, there's a pretty good chance they won't marry one. so where does that leave me? doing what i can to protect them.
what does irritate me, is being told by people whose business it isn't, what i should or shouldn't do with or for my kids. while i prefer govt keeping their interference to a minimum, the laws governing vaccinations (while they vary from state to state) are designed to protect our society from the outbreaks that were so devastating in the past. at least in TX and WA, for those parents who are firmly against having their kids vaccinated, there is an out and they can get relegious exemptions.
and i am all for them making that decision and doing it.
so i'd appreciate if they'd extend me the same damn courtesy.
(i think i might owe a bit of art now... *blush*)
I have also had 2 annuals come back as abnormal. both required biopsies.
both required surgery.
none of the above were fun. i'm lucky - so far. all annuals in the last 7 years have come back clean. but i'm waiting for the last one.
i have an ongoing heightened risk for cervical cancer because i have already been treated twice for cervical dysplaisa.
so. i have a 7 year old daughter. from a purely medical standpoint, if she can be spared from the anxiety and terror i went through during those two times in my life, i say yes, vaccinate her now. does she need to know at this age why she's getting yet another shot? not really. if it was 10 years down the road and it was the latest vaccine, then yeah, i'd tell her if her doctor hadn't already. (now they need to come up with one that protects the boys from passing it along and make it fair!!!)
as far as this encouraging promiscuity - i sure didn't make it to graduation a virgin. i honestly do not expect any of my kids to be married as virgins. hell, i can only think of two couples in the last 15 years that i know for a fact didn't have sex before they got married (which frankly scared me - i just hope they had real good communication going to have some clue if they had similiar prefernces in that area.... but i digress). so the reality is that there's a pretty damn good chance that no matter what i tell them to do nor not to do, my kids ain't gonna be virgins and if they are, there's a pretty good chance they won't marry one. so where does that leave me? doing what i can to protect them.
what does irritate me, is being told by people whose business it isn't, what i should or shouldn't do with or for my kids. while i prefer govt keeping their interference to a minimum, the laws governing vaccinations (while they vary from state to state) are designed to protect our society from the outbreaks that were so devastating in the past. at least in TX and WA, for those parents who are firmly against having their kids vaccinated, there is an out and they can get relegious exemptions.
and i am all for them making that decision and doing it.
so i'd appreciate if they'd extend me the same damn courtesy.
(i think i might owe a bit of art now... *blush*)
Calimaryn
17 years ago
I am a few days late to chime in here, my only excuse is that I'm sick.
My thoughts on this vaccine is that it should be available at a very reasonable cost, encouraged to every girl at the appropriate age and subsidized to those that cannot afford said reasonable price.
How is one shot going to spur on promiscuity? There are still, as Vex said, over two dozen more other STD's out there and not to mention pregnancy. Teach your children about all the risks, talk to them frankly and openly. Telling the truth is a good thing, it gives them all the information they will need later in life.
My thoughts on this vaccine is that it should be available at a very reasonable cost, encouraged to every girl at the appropriate age and subsidized to those that cannot afford said reasonable price.
How is one shot going to spur on promiscuity? There are still, as Vex said, over two dozen more other STD's out there and not to mention pregnancy. Teach your children about all the risks, talk to them frankly and openly. Telling the truth is a good thing, it gives them all the information they will need later in life.