Polygamy sect members insist no force is used

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/24155914/

Love, not abuse, is what binds families living on a Texas religious sect’s compound where hundreds of children were taken into the custody of child welfare officials last week, according to sect members angry over the unprecedented action.

“Everything that involves what we do with our children is through love,” a woman identified only as Monica told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira Wednesday from Eldorado, Texas. “We love them and they love us. How could they love us if we abuse them? They love us, and we love them.”

Wearing a floor-length dress with full sleeves and a high collar of the type a 19th-century pioneer would be familiar with, Monica’s eyes welled up behind wire-rimmed glasses, but her voice was soft and her diction precise as she talked about being separated from her five children in the raid.

With her was another mother, Rachel, whose four children are also among the more than 400 girls being held by child welfare officials pending court hearings scheduled to begin on Thursday. Another woman who was described as a baby sitter was with them, along with Rod Parker, a lawyer and spokesman for the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints sect to which the women belong.
Parker maintained that the state overstepped its bounds in removing hundreds of children in response to a telephone call alleging the forced marriage and sexual abuse of one 16-year-old girl, who has yet to be identified.

“I think that they’ve vastly overreached in terms of removing children from an environment,” Parker told Vieira. “I also think that the basis on which they moved in here and the way that it was done was completely inappropriate. I don’t see any evidence that could justify the wholesale removal of hundreds of children from what is in essence a community. They didn’t do this on a family-by-family basis.”
Parker and the women denied allegations by former church members that girls as young as 13 and 14 are forced into plural marriages with men who might be 40 years older than they. Vieira asked the women if that allegation is true.

“There is no force in our work. It’s all choice,” said Monica. “I have my children, and they mean a lot to me, and I know of no force, nothing like that. I have my children that I love and I want the best for them, and that’s who I live with, and that’s who I work with and that’s what I know about.”
“Everyone is allowed to choose,” said Rachel.

Parker said that it would be a rare exception for a girl to choose to be married. “There is no rule, there is no limit,” he said. “That’s a choice that’s made by the individual family members and the people involved. My information is what you’re talking about — 13-year-olds — that just isn’t true. Most of these people are married as adults.”

He questioned the validity of removing all the girls from the ranch. “They certainly can’t take away all of the children of all of the families on the basis of that kind of an allegation, which is really coming from outside the group, from enemies of the group,” he said.

Monica and Rachel said that their older children were taken from them at the 1,700-acre church compound, called the Yearning for Zion Ranch.

“My oldest daughter was taken very first from a group of girls that were interviewed first and we tried to go with them but they would not let us,” said Rachel, her hands clasped tightly in her lap. “There were many officers and SWAT teams around and buses, and they were very, very frightened and weeping as they got onto the bus and holding our hands and pleading with us to come with them, but they would not let the mothers go with them.”

The raids continued for much of last week, and, Rachel said, she voluntarily brought her younger daughters with her into custody. Girls under the age of 5 have been allowed to remain with their mothers.

“It was a couple of days later that we came with the rest of our smaller children on another bus. But they would not let us have anything to do with our first girls that were taken,” she continued. “They were across a grassy area and all we could do was wave with permission.”

Monica said she has not seen her children in nearly two weeks.

“I need to see them again,” she said. “I need to help them and to be with them, and they need me. I haven’t been allowed to talk to them. They have taken their phones away. I have had no contact. I have not seen them. I don’t know anyone who’s there with them to help them with their needs and help them understand. They need me.”

Standard procedure?
Child protection officials have said that the procedures used in the raid are standard in cases of abuse. Children who are separated from parents are less likely to be intimidated and more likely to speak truthfully, officials say. Also, when there is an allegation of abuse in a household, all children are initially removed from that home.

But other women from the sect have said that officials tricked them into surrendering custody of their children.

The state will attempt to deal with all of the custody cases at once beginning Thursday. More than 300 lawyers from all over Texas have volunteered their services as advocates, and they and Parker have said the result will be chaos. Parker insisted that each family’s case be dealt with individually.
State officials say that they are hampered in their work because they cannot find birth certificates for many of the children, and many of the women refuse to say whose children belong to whom.
On April 3, armed and armored squads of police from six counties raided the compound in response to a phone call from someone claiming to be a 16-year-old girl who had been forced into marriage and was being physically abused. The girl has yet to be identified, and sect members have suggested that the call was made by an enemy of the sect or a bitter ex-member. They characterize the raid as a violation of their First Amendment right to freely practice their religious beliefs.

Former sect members say that the allegations are true, and that girls are forced into marriages soon after puberty.

Police and Texas Child Protection Services employees removed 416 children during the raid, and 139 women voluntarily left to stay with the children.

Officials allowed 82 women with children under 5 to stay with their children pending marathon court hearings set to begin Thursday. The others were allowed to either return to the compound or take refuge in a women’s shelter. Six women went to the shelter but later returned to their homes.

The head of the sect, Warren Jeffs, is in prison after being convicted last year of forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry an older man. Jeffs founded the 1,700-acre Eldorado complex and hand-picked the church members living there for their devotion to his teachings. They had previously lived in two neighboring towns on either side of the Utah-Arizona border, where large numbers of FLDS members have lived for many years.

People who have left the sect say that the leaders exercise total control of members, who are not allowed access to newspapers, magazines or television news. They have said that physical and sexual abuse of women and children is widespread.

The FLDS members believe in polygamy as originally preached by Joseph Smith, who founded the Mormon religion, and Brigham Young, who led church members to Utah after Smith was killed. Under pressure from the federal government, the Mormons repudiated plural marriage more than 100 years ago, but pockets of believers have continued the practice in a number of locations.
FLDS compounds were raided and large numbers of men, women and children taken into custody in 1935, 1944 and 1953.

ROzbeans 16 years ago
I saw the interview this morning - wow, those women did NOT help their cause at all. When Meredith asked the women how young did their girls marry - NONE of them could answer. Or rather none of them COULD answer.

'I love my kids, I love my kids.'

Meredith kept asking and finally their lawyer said there's no answer to that question because it's up to the family. So what - a 13 year old CAN marry if the family says it's ok? I have many personal issues with religions that subvert their women. I think everything, including religion, can and should evolve.

Or at the very least - prep their women to be better spokespersons when asked simple questions on national tv.
Lillaanya 16 years ago
They say that the girls can choose, but what choice really is there if they have been brainwashed since birth as to what decision to make? There are a LOT of Mormons around this area here, and there was once I spoke to a teenage Mormon girl about her religion. She was about 15 years old, and it was downright scary how strongly she believed that her sole purpose in life was to marry and make Mormon babies. She wanted nothing more than to get done with high school so she could do just that, and I'm sure if she was not made to wait till after school she would have been looking for a husband already, and would probably take any Morman man that was presented to her.
Runyan 16 years ago
I wish I was mormon.
Den 16 years ago
Runyan;96354
I wish I was mormon.


I think it is a choice you can make.
Vishanti 16 years ago
As funny as that sounds, I actually can't believe how some people literally shop around for a religion based on what benefits are involved. "Oh, that's nice. I'll believe that." Makes me wanna fill a sandblaster with salt, roleplay an alien probing an earthling, and pull the trigger.
Den 16 years ago
Benefits? I thought people chose their religion based on the beliefs.

And when my daughter was growing up I was glad she was exposed to several different religions. I am a spiritual person, but I do not believe in organized religion. I developed my beliefs through my experiences, and wanted her to do the same. How else would she have learned? I suppose I could have given her a synopsis of religions, but I really didn't feel qualified. So instead I found those who were knowledgable, and believed, and let them teach her to the extent to which she was interested.
Vishanti 16 years ago
Sounds counterproductive, doesn't it? I have literally heard people say they were considering becoming Jewish because they'd heard Jews don't believe in Hell. I've also heard some saying they'd become Jewish because all it takes is one day of fasting to be absolved of all sins...

Ignorance and stupidity are two different things, but these people sure do a great job of combining the two.
ladyduece 16 years ago
Yeah they do. Going to be interesting watching as this does develop though. Seeing info on yahoo that the 16 yr old girl that was said to have made the call hasn't yet been found. And also more that there are girls under 18 that are pregnant or have small children, and also that some of the mothers of these children were minors when their children were born. It really looks like a 3 ring circus though.
ROzbeans 16 years ago
OH and let me just say I didn't post this to bash their religion - even though that's probably how it sounds =x I'm commenting on the situation there and the case. It is public and I think worth discussion, but I know we have mormon members so again let me reiterate that this isn't a bashing session, just a discussion. =x
Laschae 16 years ago
Yea but from what I've read these guys have gone a little off the beaten path of Mormonism. What I don't know, or understand, is that if polygamy is illegal in Texas how do they determine who is wrong when it occurs? Both people? Or just one of them? Where does the government draw the line when religion deviates from the law of the land?
FyreGarnett 16 years ago
I don't think that it's so much a matter of being off the beaten path of mormonism - what they are doing is what was done when the religion was founded. It was pressure from the govt that removed the polygamous angle. Polygamy is illegal in the US period - even in Utah. Mormons moved there before it was a state so they could live the way they wanted to. things changed.

The polygamy angle doesn't bother me so much - it's the lack of exposure the children get to the world around them. Though the same argument could be made for the Amish as far as that goes - and no one gets on their case for being "backward".
Laschae 16 years ago
That's true. I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing said about the Amish. I don't know anything about their beliefs or their culture really. On MSN there's a condensed version of a book written by a lady that left this religion. I'm not really sure if all of it is believable, what she says. Maybe just that some of what she says they are taught is just so far fetched to me that it seems impossible that people would go along.
Verileah 16 years ago
LDS and FDLS are different religions. 'Mainstream' Mormons are LDS. Mitt Romney is LDS. What we're talking about here is FDLS. They are a fringe cult who branched off the LDS church generations ago. To me it's like comparing catholic and wicca.
Mylec 16 years ago
From what I have heard, and could very possibly be wrong, it is more like the "mainstream" drifted off from the other group, who has maintained the more traditional beliefs of their religion. I'm not one to judge other people's choice of religion either. To me, I don't see the way they are being raised from anyone else in the sense that most of us growing up learn first from our parents or whoever raised us, and many tend to continue with those beliefs (whatever they may be) into adulthood. I don't consider them "brainwashed", its just the beliefs they were raised under.
Lunna 16 years ago
The reason you don't hear bad things about the Amish other than being "backwards" is they don't have a blatent disregard for the law. There is no prural marriage (legal or spiritual) they don't commonly marry off their young daughters to men who are already married and often years older.

The members of the cult in Texas are not mormons they are a seperate group who went their own way generations ago.
Laire 16 years ago
The problem with saying it's a blatant disregard for the law is that we have to remember who set the laws. Our country was founded on the differences between religion and the freedom to hold to what you believe. As years progressed the government became a solidified certain type of religion based people, a majority you can call it, and it is these people who deemed it "illegal" to be polygamous.

Now I'm not for forcing anyone to do anything so I'm against forced marriage but it's an age old practice in more than just this particular sect of Mormon faith. There are forced marriages in Africa, China, India, etc etc that are going on every day and there are the same forced betrothals occurring within those cultures here in the US. But you don't see people making it headline news. Women have been killed for disobeying their father's decision on who they are supposed to marry and that still doesn't draw attention to it like this one 16 year old who they can't find.

It sickens me how our media and our government pick and choose who they are going to apply the laws to.
Laschae 16 years ago
I don't think this has anything to do with polygamy. I think it has to do with the possibility of them marry off 13 year olds to 50 year old men. If you remove the religion and put this as any adult marrying a child it's against the law....and it should be against the law. If this was on the news as one single random person I think the majority of people would be happy that the authorities stepped in and didn't let another child slide through the cracks of the system. If, as a community, they are encouraging children to marry adults they are abusing them. It's no different than children being forced into prostitution. Any one religions beliefs should not supersede the laws of the land which they live in.
Den 16 years ago
I disagree Laire. You're correct that people in other countries practice religion differently that we do; however, in the United States it is illegal to practice polygamy, right or wrong. Further, why do we care what goes on in other countries? It's not our business. And if the majority of our nation feels its right to practice polygamy, they need to get the laws changed, but until then it's illegal. Not to mention, the majority of the LDS haven't practiced polygamy for years. This offshoot -FLDS- has chosen to ignore the laws, and as such will need to suffer the consequences.

Personally, I have nothing against polygamy, when its between consenting ADULTS. However, when children are subjected to participating, both physically, mentally, and emotionally, then I become incensed.
Kelefane 16 years ago
They need to just drop a bomb on that compound.
ROzbeans 16 years ago
You're such a boy, Kele. /snort