HP6 SPOILER Discussion

I was irritated and frustrated over the death... not so much the who, but the how. Snape is my favorite character and I hate to see him become a patsy for Vold.

I shall have to gather more evidence to support my "Snape is still a good guy" theory. I believe Snape was following Dumbledore's orders when he made the unbreakable vow, leaving the headmaster with few options. I also believe that Snape wanted to break his vow and die rather than kill Dumbledore, but Dumbledore would not allow it. I think that's why he was so angry when he came to the headmaster's office, and why they fought in the forbidden forest. I think Dumbledore's death at Snape's hands was the only way to ensure the survival of both Malfoy and Snape, and to give Malfoy a way out while moving Snape up in status. Any other alternative would involve the death of Snape and/or the rise of young Malfoy, neither of which Dumbledore would consider acceptable.

I also believe he did sincerely regret his discovery of the prophecy and where that led, though my evidence here is a little more fuzzy :\.

I buy that... and would almost say that Snape was regretful at having to kill Dumbledore because of the fact that he requested to be taken to Snapes rather than Madame P. Just hate this hanging on a cliff watching my favorite character twist in the wind!

When I'd heard that someone died at the end I knew it was going to be Dumbledore. He had to die. Just like Obi Wan had to die in order for Luke to come into his own, Dumbledore had to die to force Harry to step up and shoulder his responsibility.

As far as Snape... I have a hard time believing that Dumbledore could be so foolish, I want to believe that he did have some reason to believe Snape had truly reformed. On the other hand, that was some acting job he gave when he was escaping the scene with Draco. Still, it seems to convenient to have Harry be right about both his nemeses. I am reserving judgement but at the moment I am leaning toward Snape being Dumbledore's man.

Oooo. I'm coming late to the thread, but I am gratified to see my own theories upheld by other peoples' opinions!

Snape is also my favorite character, because I adore the irony of having a character who walks such a fine good/evil line. I refuse to believe that Dumbledore could possibly be taken in by a line such as, "Oops, I goofed. I'm sorry." I am certain Dumbledore had more reason to support Snape.

I'm also, like everyone else, inclined to believe Dumbledore was pleading for Snape to kill him toward the end. Possibly because, as he told Malfoy, the best way to hide is to become dead. I don't believe we've seen the last of Dumbledore. I think Dumbledore and Snape planned for this circumstance, allowing Snape to fulfill his Unbreakable Vow and gain brownie points with Voldy while still being the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I cannot possibly believe that Rowlings would allow one of the greatest and most cleverest of her characters to be killed so easily, and I also can't believe she would make one of the most interesting characters just fold over and be exactly what he's seemed to be throughout the entire series.

I'm also wondering about the mysterious R.A.B. who took the locket Horcrux. I'm thinking RAB could be either one or two people... remember, it took two people to get he Horcrux when Harry and Dumbledore did it, so it had to have taken two the first time. Furthermore, at least one of them had to be a fairly powerful wizard because they had to reset the trap once the Horcrux was taken. So is RAB one person's initials, or does the A stand for 'And,' alluding to two people?

I guess what I think of book 6 will depend on what happens in book 7... if things really are as Rowlings would have you believe (Snape is evil and Dumbledore is dead), well then frankly, I'm disappointed. I doubt that's the case though. With this series, nothing is ever as cut and dry as that.

What "late"? The book's been out a whole three days Most people haven't read it yet!



Veri and I think it's Regulus Black, and that he contracted Mundungus to steal from 12 Grimmauld, and that maybe, just maybe, either Kreacher or the Shrieking Painting are horcruxes.


Amen!

My friend and I had the same thought about Black. Don't forget too, I don't think anyone ever claimed Sirius was dead. They said he couldn't return, but I don't recall them saying he was dead. And anyhow, don't forget the cardinal rule of mysteries everywhere...

If you don't see a body, they aren't dead... and in this case, even if you DO see a body they aren't necessarily dead!

I -like- the two people for RAB theory .

Someone at work came up with the theory that Harry was the final Horcrux...which is a compelling thought.

I had tought about that too, but I don't see how it's possible, given that Voldemort himself didn't know about Harry prior to discovering the prophecy. He killed Harry's mom and dad, but then he tried to kill Harry too, an act he's tried to repeat several times. Why would he do that if Harry's a Horcrux?

I thought it'd be more likely for Snape to be a Horcrux... that could be why he's so dead-set on Harry hating him, because he eventually -wants- Harry to kill him to finish the job.

Hmm...now I'm not really pushing this theory, just saying it's interesting, but if we poke at it a little...

Voldie commits murder at the Potter's, a requirement for creating a Horcrux.

We know that Voldie and Harry have some sort of connection, and it's been stated outright that Harry has a part of Voldie in him; hence the parseltongue.

Harry's blood is needed to bring Voldie back from the dead. It was mentioned in book 4 that the blood of an enemy is needed...but that could really be nonsense.

We don't really know how Horcrux's are created, so it might be complete nonsense to suspect that one could occur off a killing curse gone wrong...but it would be interesting.

Perhaps the scar on his forehead is that piece. It woud explain why he's a parcel tongue, can read Voldemort's thoughts and the whole connection really. It might just be because he tried to kill Harry but this would fit and be a lot more interesting explanation for their connection, in my opinion.

Snape, being my favorite, I don't believe he's guilty without cause either.

Yes.

And I don't get all you Snape-lovers. Dumbledore and Fred & George are much more interesting. :P

I just finished the book this morning so I'm still mulling things over in my head.

Fred and George are a lot of fun but Snape is awesome, I like sarcastic guys full of darkness that seem to be on the right side after a long dark past. It explains a lot of my exes.

I believe the deal about death to Malfoy is blatant forshadowing that Dumbledore isn't dead. He also tells him that he knew what Malfoy was up to and that he knew Snape was protecting him. It would seem to me that if that were so then there was a plan cooked up from the beginning.

Voldemort would feel much safer now that Dumbledore is out of the way and will be more careless and out in the open, no one will disbelieve that Snape is evil and a loyal death eater.. which puts him right next to Voldemort where he might be needed most.

The RAB is interesting and I do wonder if it weren't R and B but then who is R and B?

I've been thinking on the theory of Harry being a horcrux and if it is true, it will take an attempt on Voldemort to know for sure. Voldie asks about 7 splits and we know one of them is himself. In Goblet, Voldie tries to AK Harry so he can't have known that Harry is one. If Harry finds the 4 remaining and he is a horcrux, he would be making a futile attempt on Voldemort and possibly endangering himself.

The more I think about it though, the more it is possible. I remember there was reference in Chamber about Voldie transferring a part of himself into Harry which is why he is a parselmouth. A part could be a piece of his soul. But if this is true, then Harry would have to die in order to finish off Voldemort. Which would make sense because if Harry were to live after defeating Voldie, he would be held in a god-like status and that would be difficult for him to bear.

Of course killing Harry off would make a lot of people very unhappy so I think that is unlikely perhaps there would be a way to disconnect the two of them and destroy that piece... assuming he even is one. Which is a neat theory but who knows n such.

Anyone else feel a replay of the Spiderman 2 ending when harry cut it off with ginny at the end?? My money is on her dying next book and Harry going beserk on whoever does it. I don't think harry is a horcrux, mainly since how tom riddle's diary was handled in book 2. his soul acted thru the book, and his will was done. it's not that way with harry tho, voldie doesn't act thru him but just kinda connected to him. the other thing, voldemort was tryin to kill harry that night after his parents, not to turn him into a horcrux. the only way i think voldie is gonna die is by harry's hand/wand, but that's not to say harry will live past that fight.

One thing I can't belive hasn't been said is the use of the word Slut in the middle there with Morfin. I was kinda taken back seeing that in there, but it did fit the context fine, just shocking to see that in a harry potter book.

I guess it really fit because I didn't notice it at all. Of course I've worked some harsh jobs and language just sort of slides past me to the point that I hardly pay it any attention.

I was thinking though that Dumbledore needed to be around to tell Harry about the Horcruxes and to get the memory but after that it would be more convienent for him to appear dead. He could then continue searching for the horcruxes without Voldemort knowing that he was around and the ministry and everyone else pestering, perhaps he even thought that he was making Hogwarts a target by being there... though certainly Harry does this as well.

It would seem to me that he should be able to take a potion and appear dead, though I'm not sure how he managed to stand up to the curse but I'm sure if anyone could figure that out it would be Dumbledore. He had the enchantments of Hogwarts down so that they could fly through at speed which means he could apparate as he was knocked off the wall.

http://pottercrash.ytmnd.com/

i have to admit, i was more than a little disappointed in Half-Blood Prince. Maybe its just me, but it seems like not a lot went on. Every other chapter was a month or two later, the school year was over almost as soon as it began.

not to say i didnt like the book, i did. it just didnt feel as complete as the other five. makes me wonder how much action is going to happen in book 7 that all the character development had to happen in book 6 to make room for it.

as for the snape and dumbledore thing, i have to say that after reading that chapter a second time, i agree that it looks rather like dumbledore was pleading with snape, not for his life, but to not screw up whatever they had planned. if dumbledore isnt dead, though, i wonder what exactly he's doing that he would have to appear to be dead to his own people as well as the death eaters.

it'll be interesting to see what theories people come up with between now and book 7 coming out.

and, on a side note, if the school does get closed down, what better place to be the new base of opperations for the order of the phoenix?

The book was good, but it felt like it was missing something. One of the main things I liked about the books was the details about the every-day things the kids learned in school. I want to hear more about new spells and abilities that the kids learn - and I want to see them put to use more! I liked the addition of the romance, and while I realize that the overall story is moving away from the school (and learning new things), it seemed like this pushed out some of the wonder that Rowling usually adds to her stories.

GD it, I want an attack on the school. How cool would it be to have death eaters, nefari (spelling? the undead), and the...ah heck, the previous guards of the wizzard jail, all attacking the school AND Rowling going over it all in detail! Shite would go down, good chars would die, and as sad as that might be, if this is the end of the series, I don't want her to pull any punches!

I gotta say that in many of the past books I've been annoyed with Harry's whiney attitude. There were several times in this book where I paused and thought to myself, "Hell yeah Harry, you're turning into a little hardass." I greatly enjoyed Harry's char progression in this book.

I for one think that Rowling left her a way out of Dumbledore's death. For one, this series has had a lot of surprises and plot twists. I can't see something huge not happening in the last book. I must say I was extremely pissed off for a second when Dumbledore died. The more I thought about it, the more it didn't make sense.

First he insisted that Harry wear his cloak on the way back.
Second, as soon as he hears someone come up the stairwell, he Freezes Harry so harry can't interferre. (my spelling is horrible, sorry)
Third. He let's Malfoy Disarm him!
Fourth He just waits and does nothing until Snape gets up to him.
Fifth. He actually BEGS! No Fing way do I believe that after all the stuff I've seen
Sixth. He doesn't even try to stop it! Again, as heartbroken as he might be, he knows Harry is there. He knows that the V man is out there. I can't believe he wouldn't make some last ditch attempt. (Wounded or not, this was the man who stunned an entire room of expert wizzards - and left Harry unscathed).

One other thing - and then I'll shut up. I was tossing around the idea that the burnt hand may not be from a horcrux at all. Maybe that is the price you pay for breaking a vow, like the one Snape made with Malfoy's mother. Snape promised to help Malfoy finish his task. His task was to kill Dumbledore. If Dumbledore isn't dead, then Snape didn't fullfill his vow. I think anyway. Vulash has my book and I can't reread to check all this stuff

-Valeon