Pledge ruled unconstitutional

O_o I guess I'm more shocked because it's become tradition to say the pledge in school. I know I mispronounced A LOT of words in elementary school, but I was teary eyed watching Catherine say the pledge on her first day. It's not that I'm overly religious...or even remotely religious...I just dislike change =(

Thoughts?

The pledge is old...and perhaps needs to be rewritten. I dislike the idea that it has to be said at all...children pledging allegiance to a country kinda gives me the willies. It would be better if they just stood up and said something like "Be excellent to eachother and party on dudes!" But that's just my personal feelings about nationalism ;)

Actually the original pledge of allegiance did not have "under god" in there.. It was added later.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

The original pledge was:

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

Well hell, if they can add it they can take it away then. Go to Congress and propose it Mai and let's have this argument done with.

:yeahthat

I just erased my rant....I dont see why people have nothing else to bitch about then the words in the Pledge. How about not say it, if it offends people so much, and let the people say it, that want to? I know a novel idea huh?

As a kid, I never really gave more than 2 seconds thought to what I was pledging too. It was just part of the morning ritual. Stand up, chant the pledge, and then begin the day. It was our signal that the day was starting.

The words meant nothing to me, they were just something to be memorized. Like my spelling list, or arithmatic tables.

I hated signing "God Save the Queen" and "Oh Canada" once a week in elementary school. I can't imagine singing a nationalism song each and every morning.

Yeah, I remember when they stopped making us sing God Save the Queen...it was the cooler song in my opinion. You yanks might know the song "God Save the Queen" as "Let Freedom Ring". The original was better ;)

Catherine's kindergarden teachers sing a 'are you ready for school' song while they wait in line outside. ALL the parents were like, 'wtf?' It was cute though. Something like that I think is cool for elementary school.

Seeing how Catherine will marry a rich and powerful King of a small but relatively friendly country and be their reigning 'evita' type queen - saying the pledge every morning is a mere stepping stone until she gathers her ultimate world dominating power.

I mean, when she finishes college. /cough

Excepting of course that if she has pledged allegiance to the US, then reigning another country would be a conflict of interest ;)

:rofl

Not really a song. And actually I think it is a good thing to have children to do. It helps reinforce the concept that they are part of a larger community and that they should be proud of the country where they live.

I find it a little bit sad as the years go by that people don't have that nowadays. To live in a place that you can't feel proud of is a sad state of existance.

There is a difference between being proud of where you live and pledging allegiance to it along with accepting that it is the preferred country by God. I am very proud of where I live...I am very proud of having lived in Canada as well. Should I pledge allegiance to one country over the other? Should my son who will also have dual citizenship? And should I teach my son that God blesses the country that his mother is a citizen of over the country that his father is a citizen of? Why not teach children to appreciate and be proud of ALL countries for their various good points and teach them that they also have various bad points? My child will be 1/4 Jamaican as well...I hope he is able to understand that that country, along with various countries in the world, have some aspects that are preferable to both Canada and the U.S...and that God doesn't choose favorites, no matter how many times we repeat that he does.

I know that these are not the reasons that atheists would like God to be removed from schools and secular things...but those are my reasons. I just don't believe that schools should be given the authority to teach my children their personal viewpoints of either religion or politics, especially since it is always slanted towards whichever country the school happens to be located in. All I'm saying is if anyone is going to influence and tinker about with my child's mind, planting viewpoints in it so early that they'll stick for any length of time, it should be me.

What is unfortunate is that many parents are so negligent with their children that it sometimes requires going to school for them to learn anything about what's going on in the world and so the ONLY viewpoint they get is the one that the school is shovelling down their throats. If the people who were kicking up such a fuss about all of this stuff spent more time educating their children themselves, it would mostly be a non issue. Seems to me that most of these people are using their children to push their own political agendas. As Rikr says, their children don't HAVE to say it. Nobody is going to shoot them for not pledging allegiance if they go to their teacher and explain their reasons why not. I'm fairly certain this is still a free country...

I am perfectly fine the pledge of allegiance as it is. Hell, we can create versions for everyone so they shut the fuck up already about this already. 60 FUCKING YEARS AND PEOPLE ARE STILL FUCKING WHINING.

"under Allah"
"under buddah"
"under atum"
"under brahma"
"under my own self righteousness because i am an idiot who thinks the greatness of everything that is and ever will be was created from a kaboom"

see how well that works out? I have found the answer.

And I am also fine with people saying the Pledge of Allegience in school, daily. I remember when I was in middle school we stopped saying it and had a "moment of silence" because of all the political bullshit. If you can't say the Pledge of Allegience than get the fuck out of my country.

I'm going to go out on the "until you have children you won't understand" branch. The simple fact is that people assume that you will be able to teach you child everything there is about the world, and for the most part it is true. But the thing is that you when you have a certain outlook on the world it makes it more difficult to teach someone about opposing views and understandings of situations

So while I will be able to teach Catherine a great deal I accept that fact that the way I know how to teach certain things and impart my knowledge/wisdom about the world is not going to be the way she will be able to understand it.

As far as the pledge, yes you damn would should pledge allegiance to the this country. In effect by being in this country you have already pledge allegiance to it. If you commit a treasonous act you will get punished, plain and simple.

Too often I hear about how everyone in our country has the right to their own opinion. Well here is mine. No you don't, some opinions are plain wrong, they fly in the face of common sense. In effect by choosing to live here is like choosing to live in your parents house. You live by their rules, you respect them, and you take up in defense of it and their ideals if need be.

If you're born to two people who happen to be citizens of a particular country, did you choose to live there as a child?

Using the same logic, just because I was born to two people of one ethnicity, does that mean I chose to be that particular ethinic group?

From www.flagday.org:

"I pledge allegiance"
...I promise to be true

"to the flag"
...to the symbol of our country

"of the United States of America"
...each state that has joined to make our country

"and to the Republic"
...a republic is a country where the people choose others to
make laws for them. The government is for the people

"for which it stands,"
...the flag means the country

"one Nation"
...a single country

"under God"
...the people believe in a supreme being

"indivisible,"
...the country cannot be split into parts

"with liberty and justice"
...with freedom and fairness

"for all."
...for each person in the country...you and me


I don't see anything in there about this country being the only country that is blessed by God. What I do see is a promise to remain faithful to our flag and what it represents to us as a nation. I thought it was stupid that we had to stop saying the pledge in school because people found it offensive.

Part of being a citizen of the United States is being true to our country. I don't think that is an unreasonable request. I am thankful that I live here, there is no other country I'd rather be in.

I fail to see how that pertains to this discussion or your previous argument.