Andrea Yates : insane, not guilty

I can't even understand how this can be a subject of debate... she killed her children. period. put her down. this one isn't fit to live amongst the rest.
what part of this is a mystery?
and how can her husband be held accountable? in a relationship you have to turst your partner, well sometimes that blows up in your fucking face and as a result this guy lost his children to this ..thing, i can't even call her a woman since it would be an insult to woemn everywhere.

to say that this is gender based is not only simpleminded its an insult, in my mind the women here should be even more outraged than the men!

She Murdered five children and your worried about her feelings and state of mind?
who fucking cares about her feelings? she lost the luxury of compassion when she murdered innocent children.
Fuck her, I hope she slits her fucking wrists and dies slowly.


"Mother is the name of God on the lips and in the hearts of all small children"
-The Crow

This is not an excuse, but it is a fact - men and women are different.

Physically, most women don't have the abilities men have. Psychologically we both have similar differences. Sure conditioning and a bunch of other things go into the way we think and feel about things, but physiologically we have different amounts of certain hormones coursing through our bodies, and in many cases this would be the reason women react differently to situations then men do.

I also believe it is the reason some women have difficulty understanding some of the ways men react to things, and vice versa. Until we share bodies and minds with each other, it may be difficult to understand certain things about each other.

In other words it might behoove some men to consider that unless they can see this matter through the eyes of a woman, they won't be able to ever understand remotely why the woman did what she did. As well, some women would need to see the same event through the mind of a man, to see why they may not be so understanding.

I don't buy the religious excuse myself, except when combined with the woman's physiological and mental state, and then only to exacerbate it.

Nobody is trying to excuse the woman. As Roz says, she needs to be put away. The point that I was trying to make is that even though she needs to be punished, I have some pity for her situation because hormones can make you crazy. It's as if you guys have never heard of things like PMS which you KNOW and have SEEN can make a woman temporarily unlike herself. PMS just doesn't even touch pregnancy let alone postpartum. I guess having been recently through it, I feel sad for her and for her kids. The bottom line is that she shouldn't have had any more and she AND her husband knew this. If she was up for murder, he's definitely an accessory to the crime. Regardless, it should say something that he is still friends with her and is happy about the decision. Either he's crazy too, or he knows that she was not herself when the crime took place.

Being Christian I know the degree that some people invest. Birth control would be out of the question for some denominations sounds like it with them if she was a stay at home mom. The man is the head of household and what he says goes.

Granted many people today have relationships / marriages where they are both contributers to the family financially, decision making and so on but for some hardcore Christians this is not the case.

You do what your husband says and live as he says, if there were concerns about future children and her postpartum history they would take it to the Lord and pray he handles it.

Now I don't want to bash my own beliefs but i have seen peope get caught up in this, and my first husband was abusive and i " sucked" it up because that is what i was supposed to do.

I chose to leave that environment but some peopel hold stronger convictions than me.

I dont know her nor excuse what she did but i can sense some level of what factors caused this.

The whole thinking that satan was in her and she was trying to save her children.

I can imagine, she feels overwhelmed, she thinks because of her overbearing husband and lots of kids and managing a house that she is in adequate and probably has horrible thoughts well because of those thoughts she things she is evil and she is probably tring to bind satan.

her "saving" her children she might have implied like a baptismal death. When you get baptized for most Christian denominations (They did for me) put you in a tub in the church the pastor holds you from the forhead and back and lowers you in the water till the water completly over your face, he says something like " through death, raise to walk in new life" its a symbolism that you die to yourself and raise to live a life for jesus. i think she was totally insane but taken all her stuff she was taking the symbolism to reality.

by no means was she right and xan youre right billions of woman handle the same pressures, she is not excused in any way shape or form and should be punished ( on what level i dont know its not for me to decide( ( you will be judged on the level you judge others) i know i know i sound like a Bible thumper. anyway

all i am saying is tht i can see the factors that led to this tragedy. not sayingthe factors are right nor the outcome just noticing of the factors might help stop future occurances

Ok wow.

I get it, really. Her religion bared her from birth control or saying 'no honey don't cum inside me" but not from KILLING FIVE CHILDREN?????? There is no excuse. I honestly believe the reason women polled are reacting differently is because it gives them an excuse to feel more sorry for themselves and use their post partum whatever and PMS as an excuse to do stuff they know better. That will probalby offend you guys, but oh well - I'm pretty damn sure it's true, and I"m pretty much always right. Accountability - again if people have to be responsible for their actions in any decent civilization and for society to work properly, and that isn't happening in this case. The facts are as follows : She murdered five children in cold blood. There are no other facts that matter in this case. She needs the harshest possible punishment that our society allows as I cannot think of a worse crime then murdering children.

As far as the husband? Just as responsible? He didn't hold KIDS HEADS UNDER WATER. Good god. He may have made an irresponsible decision, but I really doubt he ever really thought his wife would be fucking stupid and unstable enough to murder five kids. So sure maybe he deserves something for poor decision making and improper planning, but not death. And definately not more then the bitch that killed the kids.

How is this even up for debate? Gilae - my posts aren't at you really, well maybe slightly, but you said no one was arguing that she should be punished, when in fact people are :D Just not you.

I do apologize for the sarcasm - I just really can't get behind allowing someone that murders children to ever be free in society again, and for people to think this is a good thing.

I think the general idea is...she killed 5 people. It doesn't matter if they were her 5 children or someone's 5 children down the street or 5 homeless people of low society driven value. She murdered 5 human beings. No one asked Charles Manson how he was feeling at the time of his brutal murders and used THAT as an excuse to call him insane and let him live out his years in a comfy padded room with some Valium. Charlie couldn't use female hormones as an excuse. Murdering 5 human beings=the death penalty. Life is full of choices and you make them whether you're under distress or not. The outcome was a direct result of her string of choices..from marrying the man she did to accepting the religion she accepted to continuing to spread her legs and invite in the turkey baster of life giving fluid...her choices..her consequences.
The husband..well, yeah..he sounds like an idiot. However if we could all use the excuse that "the devil made me do it" just think of all the things we could get away with. Women tend to think that emotions matter far more than they do. Yes, a person's emotions can dictate to an extent what they are willing to do but if a woman can't control emotions to the point that she can kill 5 people and rationalize it as someone else's fault...that's not insanity. That's doing the crime and then not wanting the time. Toddlers do the same thing when they've been caught stealing cookies. We don't allow their excuses to dissuade us from punishment..why would we let hers fly?


P.S...I'm new here..so hi:)

Vul's girl...I'm assuming your Vulash's girlfriend. Wow Tim has a girlfriend...awww! Would you like me to change your username to whatever your real name is or your online persona name - or is Tim oppressing you and making you his property?

We know Tim. He is evil. And hi.

She's in the kitchen making me cobbler so she can't respond. I'm not oppressive in the least, but if she knows what is good for her she'll keep that name and keep working on my damn cobbler until I decide it's time for her to accept the turkey baster of life giving fluid. Don't let her convince you she doesn't like it though - she tries, but I know better.

And with that, sweetheart, you can make your own damn cobbler...evil oppressor man! I kinda like being Vul's Girl...atleast I will once he fetches me my slippers. If you MUST rename me...I'd like to be called "Dawn-Goddess of her own Uterus and Ruler of the Vulash Baby Baster"

Yeah...Vul's Girl will do, I think:D

Tim...my slippers??

So basically since she is religious and, supposedly, left decisions to her husband doesn't it stand to reason he is as well? And thus he would, as she would, left the ultimate decision to God's will?

In another vein, with no

Psychological training mind you, how is the husband able to judge the emotional well being of his wife given that this occured 6 months past the birth of their last child? Again, given that the wife waited until the husband left for work to carry this out, how apparent do you think her symptoms were, and referencing the last question how was the husband able to gauge it? In addition, using the rationale that the husband should have known, then shouldn't everyone who has a loved one commit suicide, murder or other violent crime be held accountable since they should have picked up on the clues?

Going even further, regarding PPD, should I be able to come home (provided I had deployed to Iraq) and murder my family, and then claim PTSD as viable defense? If not, as the Ft Bragg murders in 2002 indicated, how is it that such a double standard exists and is seemingly supported?

If you come home and murder me, I will be so mad.

Every time I read this story about this woman, I have the song "Every Sperm is Sacred" from Monty Python pop into my head.

She was nuts and lacked common sense before she had the 5 kids. Now she has 5 dead kids. She isn't fit to be part of society, because that voice in her head called God could easily ask her to kill someone elses kid as well. Remote chance, because it was severe post pardum depression, and she hasn't had a kid in a while, but this woman is not stable.

As for the hubby, he lacks common sense too and should not have anymore kids. Simply because I believe he should be out of the gene pool.

bottom line ,
... she killed a child .. not only 1 but 5 total~
she should be dead imho.. I dont give a fuck if she was depressed, or on a happy high ...

I was deeply depressed for over 5 years amazingly mine are both alive o_O such a bunch of bullshit.. she deserves to have done to her what she put them thu...

The dad may not win father of the year award however, in the end it was HER decision to do what she did not his.

I am just so fucking tired of people over using this excuse its not even funny. Going thu law and looking thu court cases on this is a total joke. It fumes me to no end >(

Crazy or not, she'll prolly spend the rest of her life in that mental hospital.

Some of ya'll might want her to die, but for ME I cant imagine a worse hell on earth then spending the rest of my life in a mental hospital.

She will die, eventually, and she wont be on death row when she is.

I dont necessarily agree any which way. Yes, to my mind, youd have to be "off in the head" to do what she did.

Serial killers, by the way, arent "crazy" they are psychotic. There is a difference, but thats mostly a moot point on our end.

But yes, just "oh she had a hard job" and "oh, she had depression" is a bit of a copout. As a communtiy of (mostly?) creative people, weve ALL had depression at some time or another. Ive never killed anyone, and neither have you (hopefully~) and granted this was a extreme case - but mental instability should only go so far.

They DO have shrinks in prison, afterall. :shrug.

As I said, I could go both ways. What she did was a crime. Im willing to agree she had some mental instablitity but I dont accept it as an excuse. She could have gotten help in some way, some how, and not done what she did.

Thats *my* belief.

If I had been on the jury, I can see me now after closing arguments. Screaming that line from the begining of Jurassic Park.....

"SHOOT 'ER!"

think of it like this.. If a cow in a big herd goes crazy and starts attacking calves, they would not hesitate to seperate it from the heard and put a bullet in its head.. same deal, she went batshit or holy shit, whichever and killed some children.. take out behind the barn and put a bullet in her.. simple as that.

I'll admit, I didn't see where it said anywhere that the murders happened 6 months after the birth of the last child...that does seem rather long for her to still be using the "postpartum" defense...

I've heard postpartum going on for years. 6 months isn't outside the realm of possibility.

fuck a hoe