How do you lie to a 4 year old ... ?

Not that I had to face the issues you have, but my father died when my daughter was six...a little older than Jake. I let her ask the questions, and answered them without a lot of religious overtones. Basically she was told what his medical condition was (lung cancer - he ultimately suffocated), and that I wasn't sure where his soul went when it left his body.

The main thing that we discussed was that he was no longer in pain. Anything else I would have told her would have pretty much been...I don't know. I don't know where his soul went, but I believe he's happy and watching over us. That seemed to satisfy her. With Jake being even younger, and his having had previous contact with death, he may not ask much at all.

I chose to keep my daughter's exposure to religion minimal, and concentrated more on what I felt was morally good and bad. As she got older she became more involved in organized religion, because she was interested. But that's a whole other matter, too involved to go into now.

I always felt being honest, and factual, but only giving them the information they asked for, was the best way to be.

There are very few situations that I would lie to my son (speaking rhetorically of course, because I currently have no children). But I couldn't really think of anything worse than endangering the eternal life of my child.

Lie to you're son. There is no positive from telling him the truth at this age, all it would do is confuse him and hurt him. I personally feel that God will understand such an act, despite the fact that it is wrong.

My sympathy to you and you're father's condition.

Just tell him your dad found peace. Don't bring up heaven or hell, and if Jake asks, tell him thats for God to decide.

I know thats a bit ambiguous but it prevents you from lying, and it also prevents you from having to tell him the conflict in spirituality that you and your dad obviously have. Right now, if your going to teach your son about religion you should probably focus on the positives, God's love. etc. If you go this route, your son can make up his own mind to where he believes your Dad went based on his relationship with your father.

Also if you do lie to him, and he finds out later during a time he is questioning his faith for what ever reason, it can have a devestating effect. Kids are extremely intelligent and will investigate something they believe to be a lie to find out if its true or not. So lying is definetly not the answer.

As for me, my recommendation stands above. It lets you resolve the situation in a peaceful manner, allowing Jake to explore his spirtuality, and decide where he believes your father will go. Besies, tell hin its up to God to decide is the absolute truth.


For the record, I am a spiritual person, not a religious person.

I agree with prosecution - though I think saying he found peace would also be a lie based on your beliefs Maso. I would just not bring up the religious aspect since he is so young, and if he asks questions I would just say that only God can judge him, and decide what his afterlife will entail that no one can ever truly know what was in someone else's heart.

He's 4. I don't think it'll affect him as much as you may think. I can't say I'd have this problem with Catherine, since we don't really have God as a daily thing in our house. We have christian beliefs, but we want to leave it up to her. Same as my parents did for me. See, and I'm a happy heathen. =) In any case, I'd just tell Catherine that papa is at peace, that his body hurt a lot while he was alive but now he doesn't. Just skip over the eternal damnation part because he's not going to understand.

Kids are resilient. Jake will impress you at how big of a boy he'll be and want to be there for you, for your hurt. Just let him know that you love him and it'll be alright.

I sort of agree with Pros on this one. Tell him his body no longer hurts, but only God can decide what will happen to his soul.

I rather think you are all underestimating him. He may only be four, but the innocence of children tends to bring heavy handed spiritual questions. They want the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, in vocabulary they understand.

My guess is, he will ask if Papa is going to heaven and you're going to have to answer. I think in this situation saying that his body is no longer in pain and that God will decide where he will live, is best. When he asks what God will decide, because he will ask, you can tell him that when he grows old and God calls him home he can ask God where Papa lives.

I think you ought to leave the words peace, hell and I don't know, out of it. 4 year olds do not want to hear that Daddy doesn't know, especially when he's already upset about loosing his Papa.

I wish you all personal peace as you struggle with your father's illness. I will say a pray for discernment for you and peace for your son.

*huggles*

Well, I was only speaking from my own personal experience with my daughter, when my own father - her grandfather died. And my own experience with her when she did ask questions that I had no answer for.

There is nothing wrong with telling a child you don't know something. It's a fact of life and one they will eventually find out anyway. My daughter suffered no ill effects from hearing I wasn't omnipotent.

I'm not saying never say I don't know. I say it to my children, much more often tha I care to, but I think in this situation, where he doesn't want to lie, telling his son I don't know is a lie, since he seems fairly certain what will happen.

I quite agree that you should tell your children I don't know, if in fact you do not know. They need to know that we aren't omnipotent and that we are willing to learn.

While this might not bean answer and I'm not a parent, but what seems to be the problem with lying to kids? Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy, The Easter Bunny? Last I checked none of them were real. Parents lie to kids all the time. Is it really that hard?

Maybe that just has to do with my lack of misgivings about lying when the outcome isn't really important. For example, "teacher, look I know my work was supposed to be turned in, but my tire exploded on the way to class so it'll be late."

It's a fine line, but I see the difference in 'pretending' something exists, and giving false information about something real as two different things.

Well I guess that turns into a whole different argument about what is real. Is hell real? Can you prove it?

I'm not really sure how 'pretending' that Santa Clause exists is any different than 'pretending' his grandfather is going to go to heaven until he's old enough to realize what kind of person he was. And then you can give him an accurate answer. Personally I don't see how a slight lie is going to affect the child in any way. In 10 years is he even going to remember this conversation? I can't remember anything that happened when I was 4.

I never advocated discussing heaven or hell.

I'm not a parent, so I can't really advise you on what to say to your son. I don't normally give unsolicited opions, but from what you said it seems to me that you and your father have unresolved issue's between you, and I would urge you to work on that with what time you have left.

No offense or Hijack intended.

My father didn't go to his own father's funeral. I judged him when it happened, but I let that go. There are some things that time just can't heal...or shouldn't.

Well My father Died Yesterday.

I told my son. He had plenty of questions. Instead of focusing where my father is or is not, I made mention that he was so sick from smoking cigarettes than we has in pain and had a weak heart.

I explained to my son that is a man's role in the family to protect and be strong for others to lean on. So he cried with me and then went into the house and he was strong for his mother. He hugged and kissed his brother and mother. He told her he was sorry for her sadness. He did not shed a tear.

I know his heart aches and it will take sometime to get over the idea of a loved one dying. Jake and I will take a trip to the ocean next week to dispose of the ashes. My father was a fisherman and I think Jake would best remember him that way.

I told him to focus on everything Papa did that was good. I told him to remember him. That is what Papa would have wanted.

....


What I did not expect was my wife’s reaction. She was very unstable. She blamed herself for not checking in on him every single hour during the night. She was upset because she felt she could do something to change how things are.

And then she asked the million dollar question. "Do you think he is in heaven?" As I do not normally lie to her I simply sat there quiet.

_ How do you tell your wife that three days before your father die he mocked God. How do you tell your wife that your father who had died was not a Christian? How do you tell your wife that the God she believes in will damn a man to hell for blasphemy?

I do not pretend to understand God. I do not pretend to understand where my father is. All I know is that we prayed and I hope that might be enough. I will never tell my wife this, and it hurts to think this.

My wife was concerned the she did not do enough to try to save his soul. Of course I was silent on this one to. It makes me think ... How much do I do on a daily Basis to save others souls? How many people have ever died and not gone to heaven because I didn't take time to talk to them about Jesus?

Death is never a happy time. But I do see a little wisdom in this torture we call life. Out of my fathers death my wife and me have been given a stronger realization of why God calls us to "spread the good news." Somehow out of all this it has brought the family together. It has made us stronger. And it made each and everyone of us grow is a small way.


Tough questions huh?

I do not expect everyone to be a Christian. I do not expect every to believe the same things I do. But I do think that it might be my responsibility to live life "properly" so that when people see me they can say ... He is Christian. Not because I criticize or tell others they are wrong ... but because I have a good heart and care for others.

You sound like you have a very good heart, hon, and if all religious people were like you, I'd certainly have a better view on organized religion.

As it is, I'll practice my faith, like you, the best way I can, and hope my actions reflect that.

(PS - I don't think we can be responsible for anyone's soul but our own, and no one can 'save' someone else's soul.)

You're a good man, Charlie Brown. Jake's growing up to be a fine young man. I agree with Shay, although not a hard core christian, in fact I'd almost go as far as saying I'm agnostic, I still think that everyone's responsible for themselves. I think your father really wasn't ready to die and probably felt resentment towards what 'might' be waiting for him. So maybe in laughing death in the face, he left with some spite for everything. I don't know Maso, you can only live for yourself and teach your kids the best you know how. Your wife's a good hearted person, you guys are lucky to have each other.

I have one question/point of view.

Why is death not a happy time?

Me, I celebrate a person's life, and who they were. I do not consider death to be a sad event. It is not like it is something that was not intended from the very moment you were born.

In saying such. Maso, celebrate your dad for who he. Cherish the time you had with him, and talk about the good things. Your wife is focusing on saving his soul, and letting him die. It was his time, and his fate to die when he did. Why not do what your son has done. Remember him for the best times he had as a fisherman. Its funny but the innocense of a child can sometimes be a guiding light for the adults. In this case your sons got it right, or atleast in my opinion.

Everyone handles death in their own way. Me I accept it for what it is. Its the way of life.

Pros

A happy time? It's undoubtedly selfish, but when someone dies they're gone from my life...I miss them...that's what makes it sad.

My dad was in a great deal of pain when he died, so I was happy for him that he was no longer suffering, but that didn't stop me from missing the fact that I'd never be able to hug him again, or listen to his funny anecdotes about life, or that my daughter wouldn't be able to really get to know him. That's what was sad.

I have to agree with Pros, celebrate his life for the wisdoms that he brought to you.

I grew up less than a mile from my grandparents and they were like second parents to me. Both are gone now, my grandfather was kicked in the chest from a horse and died a few months later, but he died doing what he loved and I respected him more for that than anything. My grandmother died a few years later from breast cancer that got into her lungs. We knew she was going to die for two years and every day we took to the time to appriciate what they gave us. I miss them today, and I wish that they could have seen where my life has brought me.

You will never know when a person can die. (I know this all to well as a person in the insurance industry) Have you ever considered what your fathers resentment towards his life has taught you? Did it effect the way that you will raise your children? A few have said celebrate his life and the good things that he has done. When a person dies we feel sadness because they are no longer with us physically, however their lessons will last the rest of your life. To me those are the things that you should celebrate, be sad that he is gone, but love him for who he was, appriciate him for what he taught you, and know that his lessons will be passed to your children.