Bush wants to spend $700,000,000,000 of our tax dollars

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_markets

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Wednesday that lawmakers risk a cascade of wiped-out retirement savings, rising home foreclosures, lost jobs and closed businesses if they fail to act on a massive financial rescue plan. "Our entire economy is in danger," he said.

ADVERTISEMENT

"Without immediate action by Congress, American could slip into a financial panic and a distressing scenario would unfold," Bush said in a 12-minute prime-time address delivered from the White House East Room that he hoped would help rescue his tough-sell bailout package. "Ultimately, our country could experience a long and painful recession."

Said Bush: "We must not let this happen."

The unprecedented $700 billion bailout, which the Bush administration asked Congress last weekend to approve before it adjourns, is meeting with deep skepticism, especially from conservatives in Bush's own Republican Party who are revolting at the high price tag and massive private-sector intervention by government. Though there is general agreement that something must be done to address the spiraling economic problems, Bush has been forced to accept changes almost daily, based on demands from the right and left.

Seeking to explain himself to conservatives, Bush stressed he was reluctant to put taxpayer money on the line to help businesses that had made bad decisions and that the rescue is not aimed at saving individual companies. He tried to address some of the major complaints from Democrats by promising that CEOs of failed companies won't be rewarded, while warning he would draw the line at regulations he determined would hamper economic growth.

"With the situation becoming more precarious by the day, I faced a choice: to step in with dramatic government action or to stand back and allow the irresponsible actions by some to undermine the financial security of all," Bush said.

The president turned himself into an economics professor for much of the address, tracing the origins of the problem back a decade.

But while generally acknowledging risky and poorly thought-out financial decisions at many levels of society, Bush never assigned blame to any specific entity, such as his administration, the quasi-independent mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac or the Wall Street firms that built rising profits on increasingly speculative mortgage-backed securities. Instead, he spoke in terms of investment banks that "found themselves saddled with" the toxic assets the government is now proposing to buy and banks that "found themselves" with questionable balance sheets.

Intensive, personal lobbying of lawmakers is not usually Bush's style as president, unlike some predecessors. He does not often make calls or twist arms on behalf of a legislative priority.

But with the nation facing the biggest financial meltdown in decades, Bush took the unusual step of asking Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain, one of whom will inherit the financial mess in four months, and key congressional leaders of both parties to a White House meeting on Thursday to work on a compromise.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said the senator would attend the meeting scheduled for the afternoon, and senior McCain advisers said he would, too. The plans of the other invitees were unknown. The White House said that the idea for the joint meeting was McCain's and that aides went about setting it up after Bush and McCain spoke Wednesday afternoon.

In another move welcome at the White House, Obama and McCain issued a joint statement using their own dire language to urge lawmakers to act. The two candidates — bitterly fighting each other for the White House but coming together over this issue — said the situation offers a chance for politicians to prove Washington's worth.

"The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail," they said. "This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe."

However, the Oval Office rivals were not putting politics aside entirely. McCain asked Obama to agree to delay their first debate, scheduled for Friday, while Obama said it should go ahead.

White House and administration officials have warned repeatedly in recent days of a coming "financial calamity."

But that has not closed the deal, which for many recalls previous warnings of grave threats from Bush — such as before the Iraq war — that did not materialize. So Bush's goal with his speech, his first prime-time address in 377 days, was to frame the debate in layman's terms to show the depths of the crisis, explain how it affects the people's daily lives and inspire the public to demand action from Washington.

He said that more banks could fail, the stock market could plummet and erase retirement accounts, businesses could find it hard to get credit and be forced to close, wiping out jobs for millions of Americans.

He ended on a positive note, predicting lawmakers would "rise to the occasion" and that the nation's economy will overcome "a moment of great challenge."

With so many crises hitting the United States at once, the presidential race has taken a back seat and so has Bush's involvement in politics. Bush canceled a campaign trip to Florida on Wednesday to deal with the problem, the third time in a week that he has scrapped his attendance at out-of-town fundraisers, either because of the market turmoil or Hurricane Ike.

The economic crisis also is almost certain to overshadow the rest of Bush's four months left in office and could hugely impact his legacy. It has been assumed that the long-term view of Bush's presidency was to be shaped largely by Iraq, Hurricane Katrina and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Now, the dire economic problems and the aftermath of the government's attempted solution will certainly be added to that list.



Thoughts?

Lessa 15 years ago
I havent used credit in over 10 years and were still in the freaking hole.. and its because of the damned govt idiots cant find their ass from a hole in the ground. grr!
Darsa 15 years ago
Lenders giving everyone a fucking loan. Everyone TAKING said fucking loan. And both sides, who should have known better, fucking themselves into a credit hole.


Ex-freaking-actly! It annoys me to no end that we have to bail out these idiotic companies who are throwing money at Tom, Dick and Harry whether or not they can afford to pay it back, and the equally idiotic Tom, Dick and Harry that are TAKING these loans knowing FULL WELL that it's past their limits!! Ergh, it KILLS me to not let them learn their lesson the hard way, and it kills me more to think that it's going to affect us all negatively to save their asses... then there are the heads of the companies that retire with multimillion dollar pensions from these companies that need bailing out. WTF is wrong with this picture? Everything!!

Blah.
Lessa 15 years ago
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/?fpn=the%20best%20temp%20gig%20in%20history>1=33009


Congress wants to crack down on CEO mega-salaries for banks participating in the bailout. And while the politicians argue how best to do that, Alan Fishman of Washington Mutual is headed for the doors with $19 million in his pocket.
If that wasn't outrageous enough, consider this: Fishman started the job three weeks ago. I never saw the employment ad Fishman answered, but it must have read something like this:
[INDENT]WANTED: Top executive for train-wreck bank about to be seized by federal regulators. Must be able to look busy while FDIC sells business from under you. Previous experience with angry shareholders sitting on worthless stock a plus. Perks: $7.5 million hiring bonus and $11.6 million cash severance.
[/INDENT]Fishman got the best temp gig in history.
Gylius 15 years ago
Has anyone in this thread actually studied economics, the credit markets, or at least partially understands the lending / borrowing that goes on? Wow.

Getting this done isn't "maybe, maybe not" type of thing. It has to be done, unequivocally and absolutely. The only problem is figuring out how they can actually make it work where the people fucking up actually have to foot the bill. Ideally that 700B bailout will be the starting point, but through sales, futures, and a number of other possibilities the money will go back to us. Will it happen? I dunno, couldn't tell you.

Does this bailout need to happen? Absolutely.
Darsa 15 years ago
In your opinion, and thank you for that
Gylius 15 years ago
Darsa;101153
In your opinion, and thank you for that


And every single Economist's opinion regardless of their political leanings. Whatever, listening to smart people is overrated. YAY FINANCIAL MARKET BREAKDOWN! WOOHOO!!!
Darsa 15 years ago
I make a point of listening to smart people when they aren't uppity, obnoxious, rude, snobby, etc. When they insult my OWN intelligence, however limited that may be... that's a different story. There are definitely better ways to get your opinion across than being rude and disrespectful about it.

Never have I claimed to have a full understanding of financials OR politics; I have been making a herculean effort to try to decipher the whole bailout/election thing that has been such a huge part of the news every day; I have got to say that I don't feel any more intelligent for all of my research. Just like everyone else, I value your opinion. I may not AGREE with it, but I appreciate you giving me your insight, however insulting I may find it.

Thank you
Lessa 15 years ago
Ditto, completely agree with you Darsa
Gylius 15 years ago
I can't believe how soft you people are. This is the board that sprouted up from SolRoRage. And if you take any "insult" I throw out there to heart, well, you shouldn't because you don't know me at all and nothing I say should carry legitimate weight in your life. And maybe I shouldn't have said everyone, Temprah has what seems to be an understanding of this situation.

But seriously, grow a pair. This is a bloodthirsty business, just like politics. It shouldn't be all gumdrops and lollipops.
Vex 15 years ago
Gylius;101160
I can't believe how soft you people are. This is the board that sprouted up from SolRoRage. And if you take any "insult" I throw out there to heart, well, you shouldn't because you don't know me at all and nothing I say should carry legitimate weight in your life. And maybe I shouldn't have said everyone, Temprah has what seems to be an understanding of this situation.

But seriously, grow a pair. This is a bloodthirsty business, just like politics. It shouldn't be all gumdrops and lollipops.


You better check yourself.

This board is not SolroRage 2.0 by ANY means and it never will be.

Just because ROz and a few other inahabitants used to visit solrorage and used to play EQ1 on Sol ro does not mean anything.

You are grossly out of place here acting like that and its not acceptable. If you can't voice your opinion without personally attacking someone, keep your mouth shut or i'll be forced to do it for you.

Now, if you all wish to discuss the disaster at hand, please do so, keep it on topic and out of bashing peoples' intelligence or opinions. Keep it clean and healthy.
Darsa 15 years ago
grow a pair


I'm a woman and have a husband. Don't need a pair.

My mom always said "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all." Or was that Thumper's mom? I get them confused. Sentiment's the same tho. Don't need to be a dick to make a point. Just give us your opinion and go on your merry way. Or don't, I think I can live with either eventuality.
ROzbeans 15 years ago
This is the board that sprouted up from SolRoRage. And if you take any "insult" I throw out there to heart, well, you shouldn't because you don't know me at all and nothing I say should carry legitimate weight in your life.


No, it didn't. Solrorage wasn't first, TAC was but that's not the point. You can express your opinion all you want, just don't be a dick about it.

This board is not SolroRage 2.0 by ANY means and it never will be.

Just because ROz and a few other inahabitants used to visit solrorage and used to play EQ1 on Sol ro does not mean anything.

You are grossly out of place here acting like that and its not acceptable. If you can't voice your opinion without personally attacking someone, keep your mouth shut or i'll be forced to do it for you.

Now, if you all wish to discuss the disaster at hand, please do so, keep it on topic and out of bashing peoples' intelligence or opinions. Keep it clean and healthy.


Exactly.

Solrorage was a long time ago and the only thing left of it here are posts from literally 4 years ago. You're wrong, Gylius and she's right.

Continue.
Jinheim 15 years ago
Say what you want about Gylius's delivery method, but in this instance he is absolutely correct. Failing to act would have catastrophic effects on our economy and would greatly decrease the quality of life for the average American for a long time to come.

Any good American that believes in capitalism and personal accountability should be outraged at the very idea of the bailout. It should stick in your craw that the people who took out loans they couldn't afford are going to keep their McMansions, and it should make you even angrier that the banks who made those loans are going to stay in business. And what should make you the angriest is that all the upper management that orchestrated the whole thing are going to be obscenely wealthy when it is all over.

However, as a good American, you need to get over your rage and see the bigger picture. Our economy is based on debt, and these banks control vast shares of it. If they go under, life will get worse for all of us. As much as the immediate benefactors of the bailout don't deserve it, it's our best option if our main concern is mitigating the damage to the American economy rather than justice.
ROzbeans 15 years ago
Here's the thing, even if he is right, who's going to read through his entire post now? Right or wrong, no one cares at this point. But then we're just a bunch of fucking girls and we're soft. Granted those girls actually donated and help the site and for some reason, their voice is a little bit louder to me than his.

Oh and hello, Jinheim.
Vex 15 years ago


Ok.

After reading Jinheim's message, and his comment about gylius, and then gylius's comment about us being idiotic for not wanting them to take our $700bil to pay off these other "smart people" who got in the hole so much in the first place...

holy contradiction. we're idiots because we're pissed that they want to take our money but its necessary.

... so gylius is right that we're idiots for not wanting it

... but we're right by jinheim's explanation, cause we ARE outraged that they're not holding the instigators of this whole mess accountable, and want to use our tax dollars for this...

I'm lost. I hate politics, I'm not voting. We're fucked either way.
tamaelia 15 years ago
As an onlooking Aussie, I am glad of the bailout.. only on purely self reasoning. Morally, I think it stinks that somehow it is ok to spend taxpayer money on fixing up your capitalist banking system. Where are the safeguards to ensure you wont be bailing them out again in 10 years? It is the single biggest reason I was against privatising and de-regulating our banking industry 20 years ago. It manages to prove itself incapable of self-regulation when the whole basis for the system is to make profits instead of provide services. Which is what a genuine savings and loans banking system used to be about. At least, that's what is was about down here. Can't speak with authority on your historical banking situation.

But, your pain means our lack thereof, if they bailout your financial system, then our one (and many other country's) wont suffer due to it. So on that level I am glad they did it. But it would sure suck to be American right now /commiserations
ROzbeans 15 years ago
You should still vote, Vex. If anything, you get that cool little 'I voted' sticker.
Kelefane 15 years ago
Its amazing we talk about $700 billion so casually like its just some insignificant number. I wonder what peoples reactions would be if it were phrased as .7 trillion or about 1/4 the current federal budget.

How much has been spent on aids research to date? Buying Africa might be a good use of $700 billion...

We could even turn parts of the continent into a Disney Land style resort so its eventually profitable.

Newt still believes in financial responsibility. One of the few Republicans that acts on it rather than simply says it. This bill is insane. Seriously, government run Africa-Land, theres so many better things we can spend $700 billion on. This isnt a socialist country, we dont need (and shouldnt get) socialism to cover peoples debts through hard times and if we do because of massive government stupidity, we sure as hell shouldnt give people $700 billion with no oversight as a fix.

And IMO The $700 billion is to bail out companies, not people. Its not helping people who took stupid loans, its covering the losses for the banks that made all those high risk loans in the first place. The people that took the loan still end up with nothing if they cant pay, it just means the bank ends up with the money and the government ends up with the house (or more likely China since that $700 billion is all going to be borrowed).
ROzbeans 15 years ago
The house just passed it.
Vex 15 years ago
When i created this topic, i typed $700billion at first. but i thought, that doesn't really work, $700,000,000,000 its fucking huge ( 11 fucking zeroes people )

I would much rather prefer to see $700bil go towards something else, be it research, or helping homeless, better school facilities, hospitals that need equipment. Pretty much anything except bailing out companies that should die off for their absolutely fucking idiotic business decisions.

the people who took out these loans, should get their shit repo'd or forced into bankruptcy so they've got a big fat nice mark on their record stating "hi im an idiot and i contributed to the economic depression/recession of the 21st century."

But, as i watched bush deliver his idea for this bailout, I thought well, that fucking blows. but i would rather do this now, ASAP, than "wait it out" for another potential 10+ years. I do not want to live through a modern version of the 1930s depression.