Fort Hood Texas
Anyone else keeping up with this news?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html
Kelefane
16 years ago
My family all lives 15 minutes from Fort Hood and Mom said that FBI, CIA and government agents (Lots of Black unmarked cars and even Helicopters) were all over Coryell county.
Kelefane
16 years ago
Question:
If Nidal Hasan was a participant in a Homeland Security Policy Institutes presidential transition task force last year as it states here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/fo...ing-obama.html then why is it that no other information pertaining to the man such as a mere Facebook account exists in search engines right now?
Here is the point of the question. This is the prelude to a war IMO or could be. Check out the CNN video showing him walking around in Muslim garb several hours before the shooting took place (which btw, should have sent off red flags in itself) The media is not harping over the fact that Nidal Hasan is still alive right now. Further to the point, why would someone in his position of trust and authority who helped the Obama administration not simply use his position and his known assistance to Barack Obama to get to the President? Why hit up all the men and women in the military?
I call a major bluff soon. I think that Barack and company tell the USA he was working for the Iranian government. I predict that the FBI or CIA says he was purposely participating in Homeland Security to get information against the USA for the Iranian government.
I dunno about a lot of you, regardless if what is said above is true or not, I get a whole "here we go again" kind of feeling.
If Nidal Hasan was a participant in a Homeland Security Policy Institutes presidential transition task force last year as it states here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/fo...ing-obama.html then why is it that no other information pertaining to the man such as a mere Facebook account exists in search engines right now?
Here is the point of the question. This is the prelude to a war IMO or could be. Check out the CNN video showing him walking around in Muslim garb several hours before the shooting took place (which btw, should have sent off red flags in itself) The media is not harping over the fact that Nidal Hasan is still alive right now. Further to the point, why would someone in his position of trust and authority who helped the Obama administration not simply use his position and his known assistance to Barack Obama to get to the President? Why hit up all the men and women in the military?
I call a major bluff soon. I think that Barack and company tell the USA he was working for the Iranian government. I predict that the FBI or CIA says he was purposely participating in Homeland Security to get information against the USA for the Iranian government.
I dunno about a lot of you, regardless if what is said above is true or not, I get a whole "here we go again" kind of feeling.
Verileah
16 years ago
I don't follow your logic; why would someone who works for the government in a national security capacity be google-able? These guys make sure they -do not- come up in a simple search. Also your link doesn't work :\.
...please assure me that you are aware that not all muslims, not even all devout muslims, are dangerous islamic extremists.
I think the guy just snapped.
If Nidal Hasan was a participant in a Homeland Security Policy Institutes presidential transition task force last year as it states here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/fo...ing-obama.html then why is it that no other information pertaining to the man such as a mere Facebook account exists in search engines right now?
I don't follow your logic; why would someone who works for the government in a national security capacity be google-able? These guys make sure they -do not- come up in a simple search. Also your link doesn't work :\.
Check out the CNN video showing him walking around in Muslim garb several hours before the shooting took place (which btw, should have sent off red flags in itself)
...please assure me that you are aware that not all muslims, not even all devout muslims, are dangerous islamic extremists.
I think the guy just snapped.
Nianya
16 years ago
I don't think that should have been any kind of red flag. The first red flag should have been when he started giving away his possessions... which is a sign of suicidal thoughts.
Check out the CNN video showing him walking around in Muslim garb several hours before the shooting took place (which btw, should have sent off red flags in itself)
I don't think that should have been any kind of red flag. The first red flag should have been when he started giving away his possessions... which is a sign of suicidal thoughts.
Vulash
16 years ago
Well or 6 months before defending suicide bombing on the internet.
Lessa
16 years ago
Yeah Im completely convinced the guy is crazy, but dont know that it means theres any great conspiracy. He was after all, born and raisedin the US, his family seems pretty decent from what Ive read.. noones defending the guy. If he was trying to do some tactical damage shooting a bunch of medics and unarmed soldiers doesnt seem the most effective thing. I am of the opinion that the guy was nuts for whatever reasons, and people missed the signs, or werent able to react in time. (since there was an investigation on some blogs and postings thught to be his)
ROzbeans
16 years ago
Laughing in a convenient store tells you one thing - he was at peace with what he decided. That is a common indicator for people who have made the conscious decision to end their life. Outwardly, it looks like the guy just snapped. Can I look at his circumstances and see the similarities in him that the Columbine kids felt - oh yes. He felt persecuted for his religious beliefs and says he was allegedly harassed for it. Is that an excuse - hell no.
He had other options if he wanted to get out of the military. Conscientious objector due to religious reasons - hell he could have just said no and let it go to a court martial or actually use the lawyer he had allegedly retained. But he didn't, he killed 13 people and planned on killing a lot more. I'd say he chose unwisely, but conspiracy? Come on, Kele, sometimes it is what it is.
He had other options if he wanted to get out of the military. Conscientious objector due to religious reasons - hell he could have just said no and let it go to a court martial or actually use the lawyer he had allegedly retained. But he didn't, he killed 13 people and planned on killing a lot more. I'd say he chose unwisely, but conspiracy? Come on, Kele, sometimes it is what it is.
Kelefane
16 years ago
While this maybe true, dont tell me that you wouldnt give someone like that a second look while getting on an Airplane or even at an airport without having some kind of "thought" of terrorist or extremist going on in your mind, its human nature, ignorant mind set or not, its just a fact.
Verileah;109453
...please assure me that you are aware that not all muslims, not even all devout muslims, are dangerous islamic extremists..
While this maybe true, dont tell me that you wouldnt give someone like that a second look while getting on an Airplane or even at an airport without having some kind of "thought" of terrorist or extremist going on in your mind, its human nature, ignorant mind set or not, its just a fact.
Nianya
16 years ago
I wouldn't think twice about it and didn't last summer when I was flying back and forth from NC to Maine on several trips and ran across many Middle Eastern folks. Why wouldn't I? Because I feel since they already did the hijack plane route, they know that people from middle eastern backgrounds are naturally targeted and cause suspicion and would be smart enough not to do it again and would come up with some other elaborate plan of attack.
When I'm on a plane, its the quiet ones who don't talk, don't give eye contact and act shady that make me paranoid regardless of gender, race, religion.
Verileah;109453
I don't follow your logic; why would someone who works for the government in a national security capacity be google-able? These guys make sure they -do not- come up in a simple search. Also your link doesn't work :\.
...please assure me that you are aware that not all muslims, not even all devout muslims, are dangerous islamic extremists.
I think the guy just snapped.
Kelefane;109461
While this maybe true, dont tell me that you wouldnt give someone like that a second look while getting on an Airplane or even at an airport without having some kind of "thought" of terrorist or extremist going on in your mind, its human nature, ignorant mind set or not, its just a fact.
I wouldn't think twice about it and didn't last summer when I was flying back and forth from NC to Maine on several trips and ran across many Middle Eastern folks. Why wouldn't I? Because I feel since they already did the hijack plane route, they know that people from middle eastern backgrounds are naturally targeted and cause suspicion and would be smart enough not to do it again and would come up with some other elaborate plan of attack.
When I'm on a plane, its the quiet ones who don't talk, don't give eye contact and act shady that make me paranoid regardless of gender, race, religion.
Kelefane
16 years ago
Yeah, but thats you. Ask 10 other folks and I can guarentee you that the % wouldnt be favorable to the same train of thought that you have.
And dont tell me that the thought never at least crossed your mind, if even for a fraction of a second. You may not of looked at soandso and thought that, but the thought has crossed your mind at one time or another, its crossed everyones. If it didnt, then you are simply fooling yourself. As I said, its human nature to have such thoughts, we are creatures of habit and certain events stain our minds when said event has scarring implications and when you run into something similar of the situation that scarred you, or that you witnessed and greatly disturbed you, its gonna trigger negative/fearful thoughts. Or at least, trigger similar feelings that you felt when the event originally occured.
Nianya;109462
I wouldn't think twice about it and didn't last summer when I was flying back and forth from NC to Maine on several trips and ran across many Middle Eastern folks. Why wouldn't I? Because I feel since they already did the hijack plane route, they know that people from middle eastern backgrounds are naturally targeted and cause suspicion and would be smart enough not to do it again and would come up with some other elaborate plan of attack.
When I'm on a plane, its the quiet ones who don't talk, don't give eye contact and act shady that make me paranoid regardless of gender, race, religion.
Yeah, but thats you. Ask 10 other folks and I can guarentee you that the % wouldnt be favorable to the same train of thought that you have.
And dont tell me that the thought never at least crossed your mind, if even for a fraction of a second. You may not of looked at soandso and thought that, but the thought has crossed your mind at one time or another, its crossed everyones. If it didnt, then you are simply fooling yourself. As I said, its human nature to have such thoughts, we are creatures of habit and certain events stain our minds when said event has scarring implications and when you run into something similar of the situation that scarred you, or that you witnessed and greatly disturbed you, its gonna trigger negative/fearful thoughts. Or at least, trigger similar feelings that you felt when the event originally occured.
Nianya
16 years ago
Nope it never did cross my mind. Not even for a flash second. I had more important things to worry about. My marriage was failing (reason for all the plane trips) and was almost to divorce, oh and the pathetic prop plane that I was about to get on falling apart mid air because it was so old looking and rusty (think of the Ron White bit and the matchbox with wings)...and my dog (toy poodle) who was in her little doggy carry on bag. Poor thing was so bored in her bag (did fine inside the airports) and decided to open the zipper and ran down the aisle of the plane. Got a lot of laughs though from other passangers. LOL
Kelefane;109463
Yeah, but thats you. Ask 10 other folks and I can guarentee you that the % wouldnt be favorable to the same train of thought that you have.
And dont tell me that the thought never at least crossed your mind, if even for a fraction of a second. You may not of looked at soandso and thought that, but the thought has crossed your mind at one time or another, its crossed everyones. If it didnt, then you are simply fooling yourself. As I said, its human nature to have such thoughts, we are creatures of habit and certain events stain our minds when said event has scarring implications and when you run into something similar of the situation that scarred you, or that you witnessed and greatly disturbed you, its gonna trigger negative/fearful thoughts. Or at least, trigger similar feelings that you felt when the event originally occured.
Nope it never did cross my mind. Not even for a flash second. I had more important things to worry about. My marriage was failing (reason for all the plane trips) and was almost to divorce, oh and the pathetic prop plane that I was about to get on falling apart mid air because it was so old looking and rusty (think of the Ron White bit and the matchbox with wings)...and my dog (toy poodle) who was in her little doggy carry on bag. Poor thing was so bored in her bag (did fine inside the airports) and decided to open the zipper and ran down the aisle of the plane. Got a lot of laughs though from other passangers. LOL
Vulash
16 years ago
I think his point is that if you went through the thought process to come up with the conclusion that they wouldn't try it again you've given it thought. I think it is human nature.
However, I don't know what this has to do with anything :P And I definitely see absolutely no reason to see a conspiracy here. No offense Kele, but I need some reason or line of evidence before my brain even goes in that direction.
However, I don't know what this has to do with anything :P And I definitely see absolutely no reason to see a conspiracy here. No offense Kele, but I need some reason or line of evidence before my brain even goes in that direction.
Verileah
16 years ago
I tend to think "wow, I bet s/he gets a lot of crap every time they have to fly anywhere." With this latest incident, I couldn't help but think of my muslim friends/acquaintances. All perfectly wonderful people that are probably going to end up taking some crap for this. Actually, after 9-11 a group of women got together and starting going grocery shopping for muslim women who were too afraid to leave their homes - I wonder if I should touch base with that group again.
All that said, I'm certainly not in favor of letting political correctness run amok to the extent that muslims are beyond scrutiny; no group should have immunity.
I think West Wing had a good analogy - Muslims:Islamic Extremism::Christians:KKK. It helps me to process these sorts of things because I understand more about Christians and the KKK and the relationship there.
All that said, I'm certainly not in favor of letting political correctness run amok to the extent that muslims are beyond scrutiny; no group should have immunity.
I think West Wing had a good analogy - Muslims:Islamic Extremism::Christians:KKK. It helps me to process these sorts of things because I understand more about Christians and the KKK and the relationship there.
Vulash
16 years ago
EDIT: Sorry my heart just isn't in this type of conversation I'm just going to skip out.
Nianya
16 years ago
I guess my perspective on the matter is totally different others. I grew up a military brat and spent a good deal of time living overseas when growing up so I'm use to seeing a variety of cultures and religous backgrounds. So to see someone with brown skin, yellow, black, pink or purple polka dots, wearing robes or not.. I don't glance twice or given it any attention. To me, to see someone wearing a muslim outfit is like the same as seeing someone wearing jeans. *shrug*
Kelefane
16 years ago
You own a store. A muslem or someone of Iranian descent walks in wearing a turban and a robe.....pulls a Uzi out and sticks it to your head......says give me the cash out of the register or you die.......he puts a bullet into your head.......you somehow survive the whole ordeal......a year or so later, you return to work after vigorous rehab................you see another muslem (or the like) walk into your store again.........yeah.
Your gonna be thinking and will have doubt in the back of your mind and probably some high anxiety when you see someone looking like your attacker walk back into your store, I dont care who you are or what you say or what you are going through. You will never look at those folks the same again, no matter what. Unless you seek some kind of theropy to get you over the anxiety, and even then, its a crap shoot.
I mean, look at all those Asians and Chinese folks who own those stores in LA when black folk (mostly gang bangers) walk into their store......they follow them around......eyeball them the whole time...why? because they were robbed one too many times by the "likes of them.
As I said, its human nature. Humans dont forget things that happen to them in life changing ways...whether its first hand experience, or simply witnessing it, it will change you and it will change how you look at similar situations going forward.
Your gonna be thinking and will have doubt in the back of your mind and probably some high anxiety when you see someone looking like your attacker walk back into your store, I dont care who you are or what you say or what you are going through. You will never look at those folks the same again, no matter what. Unless you seek some kind of theropy to get you over the anxiety, and even then, its a crap shoot.
I mean, look at all those Asians and Chinese folks who own those stores in LA when black folk (mostly gang bangers) walk into their store......they follow them around......eyeball them the whole time...why? because they were robbed one too many times by the "likes of them.
As I said, its human nature. Humans dont forget things that happen to them in life changing ways...whether its first hand experience, or simply witnessing it, it will change you and it will change how you look at similar situations going forward.
Verileah
16 years ago
I think this is why the storeowner does not make policy, and probably wouldn't make it past the first round in a jury selection.
Anyway, yeah, I feel a little heart-weary about the whole thing too. I haven't been keeping a close watch because the media tends to just saturate my brain. All these interviews with family are just gut wrenching. Kele I'm sure you feel it more than most since this happened practically in your old back yard.
Anyway, yeah, I feel a little heart-weary about the whole thing too. I haven't been keeping a close watch because the media tends to just saturate my brain. All these interviews with family are just gut wrenching. Kele I'm sure you feel it more than most since this happened practically in your old back yard.
Kelefane
16 years ago
Everything else aside, yeah its one whole big mess.
ROzbeans
16 years ago
Seriously, I look at interracial couples and whisper to Mike 'Wow, check it out. They're interracial.'
I'm brown and Mike's just shy of being a ginger. That's what I think of.
I'm brown and Mike's just shy of being a ginger. That's what I think of.
Kelefane
16 years ago
Anyway, im hearing some folks say that the guy just "snapped" - I cannot buy this and this is why, especially after digging for more info:
I believe that it was something he had thought about and planned for some time, couple days, months, who knows? I just dont believe it was a spur of the moment "snapped" decision. The shootings happened right after lunch when the readiness center would have been in the middle of their second rush of the day. He chose the right time to inflict massive casualties. He knew where, how and what time to strike when the base wasnt exactly on its toes. He knew exactly when to attack to inflict maximum damage. This wasnt some luck of the draw ordeal here. Fort Hood is one of, if not the biggest Military Base in America and its very well guarded. Anyone acting in a spur of the moment mind set doing what this guy did without a plan, would have been shot dead before he unloaded his first clip. The dude killed 12, seriously wounded 31 others....................You just dont do this at a Military base like Fort Hood without some sort of plan first.
So imo it was a cold and calculated act.
He also gave the man that owned his apartment a two week notice that he would be moving out and not returning 5 days prior to the shooting - so I doubt he just snapped and did it.
Was it a true terrorist act? Maybe, but who knows really. I can sit here and say it was....but then again, I dont know what was going through the mans head during all of this or what may have triggered it or if there was a secret agenda happening that nobody knows about yet....really, nobody knows for sure what the entire thing was all about. For all we know, it could have been simply a last ditch effort of a desperate man that didnt want to be deployed and figured death would be a better option and by doing what he did, made a statement and went out a martyr. Only in this case, he lived instead of the "suicide by cop" method that a lot of psychopaths take.
But I do think it was all pre planned. Whether it was a plan of terror or a self plan is another story. I just dont buy the "spur of the moment" snapped angle here.
BTW - I also read/heard that he was known for making anti america comments.
I believe that it was something he had thought about and planned for some time, couple days, months, who knows? I just dont believe it was a spur of the moment "snapped" decision. The shootings happened right after lunch when the readiness center would have been in the middle of their second rush of the day. He chose the right time to inflict massive casualties. He knew where, how and what time to strike when the base wasnt exactly on its toes. He knew exactly when to attack to inflict maximum damage. This wasnt some luck of the draw ordeal here. Fort Hood is one of, if not the biggest Military Base in America and its very well guarded. Anyone acting in a spur of the moment mind set doing what this guy did without a plan, would have been shot dead before he unloaded his first clip. The dude killed 12, seriously wounded 31 others....................You just dont do this at a Military base like Fort Hood without some sort of plan first.
So imo it was a cold and calculated act.
He also gave the man that owned his apartment a two week notice that he would be moving out and not returning 5 days prior to the shooting - so I doubt he just snapped and did it.
Was it a true terrorist act? Maybe, but who knows really. I can sit here and say it was....but then again, I dont know what was going through the mans head during all of this or what may have triggered it or if there was a secret agenda happening that nobody knows about yet....really, nobody knows for sure what the entire thing was all about. For all we know, it could have been simply a last ditch effort of a desperate man that didnt want to be deployed and figured death would be a better option and by doing what he did, made a statement and went out a martyr. Only in this case, he lived instead of the "suicide by cop" method that a lot of psychopaths take.
But I do think it was all pre planned. Whether it was a plan of terror or a self plan is another story. I just dont buy the "spur of the moment" snapped angle here.
BTW - I also read/heard that he was known for making anti america comments.