I just wanted to add in that list of best players ever, Im not sure if anyone knows of her, but Sandyena is and always will be the best cleric Ive ever known period. She was quiet, but a sweetheart. She always listened. She ALWAYS played 4 hrs past her bedtime when Drade was begging for her not to log and go to bed even though she felt bad because theres just one more mob....
And no one, I mean NO ONE has ever adapted and fit a cleric's lifestyle as she has. (That I know.)
As far as the other comments, I think it depends on who you know, and why you play. Ask many women why they play and I bet one of the answers you get is
"Because my husband/spouse/boyfriend plays."
Now, taking that into consideration, and that 1) obviously they didnt go out and buy the game for their interests, and 2) they probably are bored shitless while their (friend) plays, and 3) women are over all more chatty, ditzy, and easy going than men when it comes to any video game or competition, then I think its obvious that many women arent going to be as ambitious as men. Not to mention a good 85 percent of women I know that play have kids and a home and sometimes a job too.
What of the men I know? I can think of 10 close men buds I have atm. 6 are in their 30's and live at home by themselves, with a parent, or a friend. 2 are going to college and play in their free time. 2 are married and recently quit playing "for lack of time".
Id say that's why men play more, and are some of the better players. More time, the "penile wagging" that was mentioned, (yes I just said penile /giggle) and other various things. Rare is it to meet a hard working man that is taking care of a family that has TIME and ENERGY to play a game at the end of the day for long periods of time. And to clarify, by hardworking I mean blue collar or more than 40 hrs per week job. By the time you work 40 plus hrs, help with dinner/feed the kids/ give baths/ etc your too damn tired to log in.
Just my thoughts.
Women gamers and stereotypes
I generally hold the belief that women can do anything men do in a video game, but it seems different classes/playstyles appeal to women, and women are treated differently in game than men. I thought I would throw a few observations out there and see if people think I'm accurate, if it's wrong, if it needs to change, if game designers need to do better, etc. etc.
1. Women characters get free stuff.
I have never received anything for free because I am a woman. Perhaps if I played a pretty little woodelf things would be different. I played a big barbarian shaman and maybe she scared boys off .
2. Women are good healers; men are better tanks.
I honestly haven't seen a great many women tanks. Great female clerics? Easy. So why is this, I wonder? Is it simply that other classes are more appealing to women, so they don't play tanks? Are we in some way less suited to the role of damage taking by virtue of something within the female temperament? Likewise, is there something in our temperament that makes us good healers? Is our nurturing instinct kicking in or is that all a bunch of crap?
I've no doubt women can tank as well as men, but why don't we generally want to play the meat shield? What is appealing to women about healing classes?
Some other random observations that I don't really have any comments on:
3. I notice that during my time in EQ there were always some women in leadership positions in my guild. However, it seemed the role of women was things like conflict resolution, forum management, recruitment, and administrative duties, whereas men held roles like raid leader and overall guildleader. I wonder why that is.
4. I have never felt that I was considered a less skilled player because I am a woman, at least not directly. Just felt that needed to be said. I did sometimes feel you had to have a penis to be listened to in groups or whatever, but I don't have a very authoritative temperament, so perhaps there were times when I was simply not assertive enough.
5. This is something that I've asked other women about...I'm not sure if it's true or not, but many of us feel that we are asked for buffs more than men of the same class. Honestly...this is something I'm guilty of /blush. I of course tried to mix it up a bit, but I did tend to ask women for buffs more than men. More of that nurturing stuff, or is something else going on?
6. This is just an impression, but does anyone else feel a disproportionate amount of women never go to the high end, even though they play just as many hours as men? Why is that? Just not the playstyle women generally prefer? Too hard to break into a man's playground?
7. I can be pretty quick to point out a double standard even when it's not exactly fair. Anyway, here's a few I've noticed, which you may disregard or beat into the ground if you wish.
a. Women can't act sexy and be considered "legit". In fact, calling someone "hon" can easily lead to a woman being painted a cyber whore. However, it seems men can talk openly about their sexual exploits in and out of game without fear of gaining a bad reputation. Eh, same in RL I guess.
b. Ambitious women=evil whores trying to claw their way to the top. Ambitious men=honorable hard working loyal players who "just want to see their guild succeed". Or if they're guild hoppers, Ambitious men=guys who just want to be the best and play on their own terms, since they pay to play and all.
c. Constantly afk woman=busy lady who has to take care of a kid after all. Constantly afk man=lazy bastard who should die in a fire.
So...thoughts?
Guest
21 years ago
Mai
21 years ago
I am replying to the original list of questions. I'll read the rest of the thread in a sec.
1. Women characters get free stuff.
Simple... many men playing are geeks with no social life. Therefore they are nice to anything close to a female character. I have found that they are more likely to give free stuff to a male playing a female character than an actual female. From what I've seen the more flirty lovey females tend to be males playing it up for their gender biased hard up for a date buddies.
That's not all men, not even most of them, just a lot of the ones willing to hand items to naked female characters.
2. Women are good healers; men are better tanks.
Tanks in EQ1 were boring. Hit the attack and walk away. I played a druid and spent much of my time soloing. I never had a problem kiting in any fashion and was not a "group" druid. My mom's ex on the other hand.. could never get the hang of kiting and always had to have a group.. or would do the very safe root/rot if he absolutely had to. Don't get me wrong, grouping was sometimes fun and healing is ok, but damage is far more appealing.
3. I notice that during my time in EQ there were always some women in leadership positions in my guild. However, it seemed the role of women was things like conflict resolution, forum management, recruitment, and administrative duties, whereas men held roles like raid leader and overall guildleader. I wonder why that is.
*shrug* I'm a guildleader and have almost always been an officer. Many times in Blood and Wine it was I that did the raid leading because they'd argue all night over what they wanted to do. I'm not very patient with that kind indecision.. Get it done or I'll go solo.
4. I have never felt that I was considered a less skilled player because I am a woman, at least not directly. Just felt that needed to be said. I did sometimes feel you had to have a penis to be listened to in groups or whatever, but I don't have a very authoritative temperament, so perhaps there were times when I was simply not assertive enough.
When playing a female character I have noticed people telling me how to run my character, especially a healer. Buff with this, heal now.. etc.. One guy in the guild annoyed me with this habit one too many times. I told him. "Swing harder. Hit it faster. Remember to taunt. Just pull one." He said he knew how to do his job and that he didn't need any help from me. I replied, Yes, and I'm quite capable of doing mine so I'll stop giving you advise when you shut up and let me do my job in peace. He did and after that constantly asked for me as his healer. The other thing I noticed is people seem to think a woman can't find her way around Norrath. Always amusing to me.
5. This is something that I've asked other women about...I'm not sure if it's true or not, but many of us feel that we are asked for buffs more than men of the same class. Honestly...this is something I'm guilty of /blush. I of course tried to mix it up a bit, but I did tend to ask women for buffs more than men. More of that nurturing stuff, or is something else going on?
I ask whoever is available, starting with friends first. Our main shaman refused to buff people. It was a running joke. Her banner even said the Non buffing shaman. (She would buff after much begging or harassment)
6. This is just an impression, but does anyone else feel a disproportionate amount of women never go to the high end, even though they play just as many hours as men? Why is that? Just not the playstyle women generally prefer? Too hard to break into a man's playground?
There are less women playing the game. I have noticed a less competive attitude in many women though. They don't mind tradeskilling or wandering around playing and chatting with friends. Maybe its just who the game gets exposed to.
7. I can be pretty quick to point out a double standard even when it's not exactly fair. Anyway, here's a few I've noticed, which you may disregard or beat into the ground if you wish.
a. Women can't act sexy and be considered "legit". In fact, calling someone "hon" can easily lead to a woman being painted a cyber whore. However, it seems men can talk openly about their sexual exploits in and out of game without fear of gaining a bad reputation. Eh, same in RL I guess.
Mostly from what I've seen any woman being overly friendly is assumed to be a man. I tend to assume that also. Just because of my own personal perspective, I don't play to be hit on nor am I interested in some mushy online relationship and I've seen my best friend be the sympathetic ear for so many males having issues that she then has problems getting rid of them and they all feel that they have some special claim to her. No thanks, so anyone actively seeming to court that kind of interaction I first assume is a man. Finding out its not, I figure she's in for trouble down the road from people who will take things too seriously.
b. Ambitious women=evil whores trying to claw their way to the top. Ambitious men=honorable hard working loyal players who "just want to see their guild succeed". Or if they're guild hoppers, Ambitious men=guys who just want to be the best and play on their own terms, since they pay to play and all.
I haven't noticed a difference either way here. Personally I figure you can be ambitious without being a jerk.. and I've seen those in both genders. If guild hopping is for you then more power to you just don't come and try to take over my guild and mess it up. I don't even mind them joining so long as they don't cause problems.
c. Constantly afk woman=busy lady who has to take care of a kid after all. Constantly afk man=lazy bastard who should die in a fire.
Constantly afk anything is annoying. In my opinion if you have something or someone that is going to keep you away from the group constantly... play a class that can solo. As far as gender goes I haven't found it to be any different. If a baby is involved people are tolerant, if not.. they aren't. I have male friends that take care of their kids and no one gave them problems. I've also seen a female enchanter constantly away with no reason given who was bitched about constantly.
1. Women characters get free stuff.
Simple... many men playing are geeks with no social life. Therefore they are nice to anything close to a female character. I have found that they are more likely to give free stuff to a male playing a female character than an actual female. From what I've seen the more flirty lovey females tend to be males playing it up for their gender biased hard up for a date buddies.
That's not all men, not even most of them, just a lot of the ones willing to hand items to naked female characters.
2. Women are good healers; men are better tanks.
Tanks in EQ1 were boring. Hit the attack and walk away. I played a druid and spent much of my time soloing. I never had a problem kiting in any fashion and was not a "group" druid. My mom's ex on the other hand.. could never get the hang of kiting and always had to have a group.. or would do the very safe root/rot if he absolutely had to. Don't get me wrong, grouping was sometimes fun and healing is ok, but damage is far more appealing.
3. I notice that during my time in EQ there were always some women in leadership positions in my guild. However, it seemed the role of women was things like conflict resolution, forum management, recruitment, and administrative duties, whereas men held roles like raid leader and overall guildleader. I wonder why that is.
*shrug* I'm a guildleader and have almost always been an officer. Many times in Blood and Wine it was I that did the raid leading because they'd argue all night over what they wanted to do. I'm not very patient with that kind indecision.. Get it done or I'll go solo.
4. I have never felt that I was considered a less skilled player because I am a woman, at least not directly. Just felt that needed to be said. I did sometimes feel you had to have a penis to be listened to in groups or whatever, but I don't have a very authoritative temperament, so perhaps there were times when I was simply not assertive enough.
When playing a female character I have noticed people telling me how to run my character, especially a healer. Buff with this, heal now.. etc.. One guy in the guild annoyed me with this habit one too many times. I told him. "Swing harder. Hit it faster. Remember to taunt. Just pull one." He said he knew how to do his job and that he didn't need any help from me. I replied, Yes, and I'm quite capable of doing mine so I'll stop giving you advise when you shut up and let me do my job in peace. He did and after that constantly asked for me as his healer. The other thing I noticed is people seem to think a woman can't find her way around Norrath. Always amusing to me.
5. This is something that I've asked other women about...I'm not sure if it's true or not, but many of us feel that we are asked for buffs more than men of the same class. Honestly...this is something I'm guilty of /blush. I of course tried to mix it up a bit, but I did tend to ask women for buffs more than men. More of that nurturing stuff, or is something else going on?
I ask whoever is available, starting with friends first. Our main shaman refused to buff people. It was a running joke. Her banner even said the Non buffing shaman. (She would buff after much begging or harassment)
6. This is just an impression, but does anyone else feel a disproportionate amount of women never go to the high end, even though they play just as many hours as men? Why is that? Just not the playstyle women generally prefer? Too hard to break into a man's playground?
There are less women playing the game. I have noticed a less competive attitude in many women though. They don't mind tradeskilling or wandering around playing and chatting with friends. Maybe its just who the game gets exposed to.
7. I can be pretty quick to point out a double standard even when it's not exactly fair. Anyway, here's a few I've noticed, which you may disregard or beat into the ground if you wish.
a. Women can't act sexy and be considered "legit". In fact, calling someone "hon" can easily lead to a woman being painted a cyber whore. However, it seems men can talk openly about their sexual exploits in and out of game without fear of gaining a bad reputation. Eh, same in RL I guess.
Mostly from what I've seen any woman being overly friendly is assumed to be a man. I tend to assume that also. Just because of my own personal perspective, I don't play to be hit on nor am I interested in some mushy online relationship and I've seen my best friend be the sympathetic ear for so many males having issues that she then has problems getting rid of them and they all feel that they have some special claim to her. No thanks, so anyone actively seeming to court that kind of interaction I first assume is a man. Finding out its not, I figure she's in for trouble down the road from people who will take things too seriously.
b. Ambitious women=evil whores trying to claw their way to the top. Ambitious men=honorable hard working loyal players who "just want to see their guild succeed". Or if they're guild hoppers, Ambitious men=guys who just want to be the best and play on their own terms, since they pay to play and all.
I haven't noticed a difference either way here. Personally I figure you can be ambitious without being a jerk.. and I've seen those in both genders. If guild hopping is for you then more power to you just don't come and try to take over my guild and mess it up. I don't even mind them joining so long as they don't cause problems.
c. Constantly afk woman=busy lady who has to take care of a kid after all. Constantly afk man=lazy bastard who should die in a fire.
Constantly afk anything is annoying. In my opinion if you have something or someone that is going to keep you away from the group constantly... play a class that can solo. As far as gender goes I haven't found it to be any different. If a baby is involved people are tolerant, if not.. they aren't. I have male friends that take care of their kids and no one gave them problems. I've also seen a female enchanter constantly away with no reason given who was bitched about constantly.
Vulash
21 years ago
Men in general make faster split second decisions when driving :D
Vulash
21 years ago
As far as video games and genetics I really don't know. I know that the generation now can typically blow away our parents generation unless its someone that has been playing since Atari simply because we've done it all our lives. I don't know if that is why alot of women aren't as good (lack of practice) or if its genetic. I know there were some women in WC3 though that kicked my ass. A couple anyway ;p
Mai
21 years ago
Oooh Atari... L33t!
*pretends not to remember playing it.*
*pretends not to remember playing it.*
immy
21 years ago
Well, I'll admit, I never even glanced at mmorpgs in the store. My ex husband bought EQ and I was attracted to it simply because of all the different characters you could create.
I was a tomboy growing up, no barbie dolls for me, I played with GI Joe shit and played in a treehouse. I joined the AF and was a mechanic on airplanes. I know how to fix cars. I go to drag races as well as race in some. I know how to build shit. But, I'm also a single mom of two boys, I know how to cook and clean. I know how to decorate. I like to get dolled up and go out. I enjoy a compliment. Soo, I guess I'm a little of both worlds. Tomboyish and Girly.
I played the game while the ex was at work, just fucking around, seeing what it was about. Eventually, I found myself enjoying killing things. I wanted to challenge myself with a mob that was a red con at any level. I wanted to master each class. I play a cleric now, simply because, I enjoy it and it's helpful to my guild. It's nice to know, that if I miss a heal on a raid, it could possibly wipe the raid. To me, that is important. I don't give two fucks if the person next to me is a chick or not. I worry more about ebayed toons that RL females being behind the computer.
I agree, for the majority, female players aren't as skilled as male players. It's always been that way. Statistically speaking, men are better with hand eye coordiantion, math, and quick thinking. That doesn't mean every man is. Nor, does it mean every woman sucks at those things. It's just a generalization and statistic.
I lead raids, and I enjoy it. I have not been a guild leader though, I don't have enough time in my life to do so. Though, the role of a GL I find appealing, my sons come before any game.
I received free stuff once. But, it was a female that gave it to me. I was a n00b cleric at the lvl of 10ish, she popped up some gear and gave me some pointers on being a cleric. I'm friends with her to this day. Did she give it to me because I was a female? Probably not. Did she give it to me because I was a cleric? I'm guessing yes.
I also have a warrior, that I enjoy alot. But, my guild needs clerics more than warriors atm. Plus, I kick ass at being a cleric. At low levels I was healing groups well above me. I know how to manage mana and I am damn good at quick decision making.
As far as buffs go, I'd venture to say women are more likely to be asked for buffs than men. However, I play a male shaman off and on, he gets hit up for buffs more than my female cleric. Part of it may because, people are expecting a teen boy on the other end of a male toon that will give you the response of "d00d, ur wntng bufz cuz u sck" as opposed to a female saying "Sure hun, sec".
Basically, it's all in the player. Men can suck. Women can suck. Women can kick much ass. Men can kick much ass.
I was a tomboy growing up, no barbie dolls for me, I played with GI Joe shit and played in a treehouse. I joined the AF and was a mechanic on airplanes. I know how to fix cars. I go to drag races as well as race in some. I know how to build shit. But, I'm also a single mom of two boys, I know how to cook and clean. I know how to decorate. I like to get dolled up and go out. I enjoy a compliment. Soo, I guess I'm a little of both worlds. Tomboyish and Girly.
I played the game while the ex was at work, just fucking around, seeing what it was about. Eventually, I found myself enjoying killing things. I wanted to challenge myself with a mob that was a red con at any level. I wanted to master each class. I play a cleric now, simply because, I enjoy it and it's helpful to my guild. It's nice to know, that if I miss a heal on a raid, it could possibly wipe the raid. To me, that is important. I don't give two fucks if the person next to me is a chick or not. I worry more about ebayed toons that RL females being behind the computer.
I agree, for the majority, female players aren't as skilled as male players. It's always been that way. Statistically speaking, men are better with hand eye coordiantion, math, and quick thinking. That doesn't mean every man is. Nor, does it mean every woman sucks at those things. It's just a generalization and statistic.
I lead raids, and I enjoy it. I have not been a guild leader though, I don't have enough time in my life to do so. Though, the role of a GL I find appealing, my sons come before any game.
I received free stuff once. But, it was a female that gave it to me. I was a n00b cleric at the lvl of 10ish, she popped up some gear and gave me some pointers on being a cleric. I'm friends with her to this day. Did she give it to me because I was a female? Probably not. Did she give it to me because I was a cleric? I'm guessing yes.
I also have a warrior, that I enjoy alot. But, my guild needs clerics more than warriors atm. Plus, I kick ass at being a cleric. At low levels I was healing groups well above me. I know how to manage mana and I am damn good at quick decision making.
As far as buffs go, I'd venture to say women are more likely to be asked for buffs than men. However, I play a male shaman off and on, he gets hit up for buffs more than my female cleric. Part of it may because, people are expecting a teen boy on the other end of a male toon that will give you the response of "d00d, ur wntng bufz cuz u sck" as opposed to a female saying "Sure hun, sec".
Basically, it's all in the player. Men can suck. Women can suck. Women can kick much ass. Men can kick much ass.
Anulien
21 years ago
Here is a derail. Why is it that every guild has a shaman who feels they are so godly they dont have to buff anymore. HI FUCKER, YOU CHOSE A BUFF CLASS NOW GET CLICKING YOU LITTLE BITCH. Why does every shaman feel the need to slow everyone mob incoming to a raid before it reaches a tank? MY HP BAR READS 14K YOURS DOES NOT, LET ME AGGRO IT. I hated shaman almost as much as I hated clerics.
Mai
I ask whoever is available, starting with friends first. Our main shaman refused to buff people. It was a running joke. Her banner even said the Non buffing shaman. (She would buff after much begging or harassment)
Here is a derail. Why is it that every guild has a shaman who feels they are so godly they dont have to buff anymore. HI FUCKER, YOU CHOSE A BUFF CLASS NOW GET CLICKING YOU LITTLE BITCH. Why does every shaman feel the need to slow everyone mob incoming to a raid before it reaches a tank? MY HP BAR READS 14K YOURS DOES NOT, LET ME AGGRO IT. I hated shaman almost as much as I hated clerics.
Verileah
21 years ago
I'm pretty sure my inability to find my ass with both hands in my back pockets squeezing has nothing to do with my gender. I am directionally challenged in RL and in video games, just like my father.
And here I thought the people who said that sort of thing were the ones who asked for buffs, not the ones who gave them out!
The other thing I noticed is people seem to think a woman can't find her way around Norrath. Always amusing to me.
I'm pretty sure my inability to find my ass with both hands in my back pockets squeezing has nothing to do with my gender. I am directionally challenged in RL and in video games, just like my father.
Part of it may because, people are expecting a teen boy on the other end of a male toon that will give you the response of "d00d, ur wntng bufz cuz u sck" as opposed to a female saying "Sure hun, sec".
And here I thought the people who said that sort of thing were the ones who asked for buffs, not the ones who gave them out!
Anulien
21 years ago
"Did I hurt your feelings? GOOD YOU CUNT BECAUSE YOU JUST WASTED 40 OTHER PEOPLES LIVES FOR YOUR DOWNS SYNDROME" is something I've probably said. I discrimate against stupidity equally.
I guess that comes back the cultural thing. You don't tell women their faults or they flip out like ninjas but not really.
Verileah
Here's a question for Anulien; did you have any trouble telling a woman to die in a fire if she fucked up on a raid?
"Did I hurt your feelings? GOOD YOU CUNT BECAUSE YOU JUST WASTED 40 OTHER PEOPLES LIVES FOR YOUR DOWNS SYNDROME" is something I've probably said. I discrimate against stupidity equally.
Verileah
I've actually had a guys apologize to me when whatever bad thing happened was my freakin fault, it's so frustrating :(. I can't ask guys to completely change their ways with women and I'm not so much asking to be treated like a man...*sigh* but I don't know what the solution is other than to be gender blind when accountability needs to be handled. Also, it's more than a little possible that the man is wrong and that should be straightened out rather than brooding silently (or behind the woman's back :X) about percieved errors.
I guess that comes back the cultural thing. You don't tell women their faults or they flip out like ninjas but not really.
Mai
21 years ago
LMAO Anulien! I wondered that myself. I like her, she was a cool person and my favorite shaman but there were times I wanted to tell her to just buff damn it!
As far as directions go. I can read a map and if I've been there once or twice I'm good. I do get bored with all the running and have a habit of autofollowing someone and taking care of little things around my desk while someone who already knows the way is running. So I might not have payed attention to how we got somewhere. I miss ports! The best player I've seen in EQ2 and the least directionally challenged is a female. She ran a level 10 caster through Nektulos with no help or invis and didn't get hit on the way. I'm still not sure how she managed to not agro everything in that zone. I haven't seen her play a class yet that she hasn't mastered. She's already at the end game in EQ2 and that while wandering around looking at the sights and asking me to come see the pretty new armor she bought.
As far as directions go. I can read a map and if I've been there once or twice I'm good. I do get bored with all the running and have a habit of autofollowing someone and taking care of little things around my desk while someone who already knows the way is running. So I might not have payed attention to how we got somewhere. I miss ports! The best player I've seen in EQ2 and the least directionally challenged is a female. She ran a level 10 caster through Nektulos with no help or invis and didn't get hit on the way. I'm still not sure how she managed to not agro everything in that zone. I haven't seen her play a class yet that she hasn't mastered. She's already at the end game in EQ2 and that while wandering around looking at the sights and asking me to come see the pretty new armor she bought.
Gilae
21 years ago
Anulien felt I should post a woman's point of view. There was a lot to read here and I'm tired from lots of 'vacationing' but here's my short answers on a few things that stood out.
Anu used to and continues to yell at me for fucking up. This is his way of teaching me. I have a thicker skin then most girls so I don't cry IRL about it...I've known other girls who have. He's also told me "OMG YOU'RE AMAZING" but it either had nothing to do with EQ/WoW or I often felt like if it was about a game that he was saying it to make me feel better after he had screamed at me for hours the day before. On a side note, when Anu fucks up (rare, but it happens) I often say nothing and overlook it...cause I'm a kind and loving friend that wouldn't want to hurt his e-penis. I think this has a lot to do with me being a woman and may explain much of what you're asking about Veri. As a female I'm more interested in making my male friends content while still seeing and doing the things I'm interested in...it is for guys to pat eachother on the back and RAWR about how manly they are...whether it be regarding online games, or football games. It's what they do. Girls are generally content seeing new things and trying new things...and intermittantly petting our men so they feel they have the appropriate amount of attention and feel appropriately manly. So, for example, my conversations with Anu are often as follows:
Anu: Wow we killed X monster with only X amount of people! We are teh leet!
Gilly: That's amazing hun! You did good!
Anu: I got this <linked equipment>
Gilly: That's a great item!
Anu: I'll take you with me next time so you can see it/get one too!
Gilly: Aww, that's sweet hun, thanks! I can't wait to go! Hey, show me how you did X.
We have other weird conversations...but the game related ones often go like that.
On to the next point...I've been both raid leader and guild leader...and I'm a pretty decent bard but I just have never cared about being the best. As long as I don't suck and I'm holding up my end, then I figure I'm doing ok. I can say without any reservation that I'm better then many males who consider themselves "uber". It should be noted though that much of what I've learned, I've learned from other male bards. I don't know any other decent female bards, though I hear they exist.
Guys DO give chicks stuff cause they are chicks...I don't know if they're hoping for the cyber or what. I've had guys on every game I've ever played ask me if I'm a girl irl and then offer me something almost immediately afterwards. I never accept gifts from anyone I don't know really well for that reason. Fuck freebies. I also don't accept drinks from men I don't know irl. I have accepted both equipement and drinks irl from Anu. I also know he offers equipment to guys however. And I've bought him drinks...so we're even ;)
I'm going back to bed...but that's all I have to say about that for the moment :)
Anu used to and continues to yell at me for fucking up. This is his way of teaching me. I have a thicker skin then most girls so I don't cry IRL about it...I've known other girls who have. He's also told me "OMG YOU'RE AMAZING" but it either had nothing to do with EQ/WoW or I often felt like if it was about a game that he was saying it to make me feel better after he had screamed at me for hours the day before. On a side note, when Anu fucks up (rare, but it happens) I often say nothing and overlook it...cause I'm a kind and loving friend that wouldn't want to hurt his e-penis. I think this has a lot to do with me being a woman and may explain much of what you're asking about Veri. As a female I'm more interested in making my male friends content while still seeing and doing the things I'm interested in...it is for guys to pat eachother on the back and RAWR about how manly they are...whether it be regarding online games, or football games. It's what they do. Girls are generally content seeing new things and trying new things...and intermittantly petting our men so they feel they have the appropriate amount of attention and feel appropriately manly. So, for example, my conversations with Anu are often as follows:
Anu: Wow we killed X monster with only X amount of people! We are teh leet!
Gilly: That's amazing hun! You did good!
Anu: I got this <linked equipment>
Gilly: That's a great item!
Anu: I'll take you with me next time so you can see it/get one too!
Gilly: Aww, that's sweet hun, thanks! I can't wait to go! Hey, show me how you did X.
We have other weird conversations...but the game related ones often go like that.
On to the next point...I've been both raid leader and guild leader...and I'm a pretty decent bard but I just have never cared about being the best. As long as I don't suck and I'm holding up my end, then I figure I'm doing ok. I can say without any reservation that I'm better then many males who consider themselves "uber". It should be noted though that much of what I've learned, I've learned from other male bards. I don't know any other decent female bards, though I hear they exist.
Guys DO give chicks stuff cause they are chicks...I don't know if they're hoping for the cyber or what. I've had guys on every game I've ever played ask me if I'm a girl irl and then offer me something almost immediately afterwards. I never accept gifts from anyone I don't know really well for that reason. Fuck freebies. I also don't accept drinks from men I don't know irl. I have accepted both equipement and drinks irl from Anu. I also know he offers equipment to guys however. And I've bought him drinks...so we're even ;)
I'm going back to bed...but that's all I have to say about that for the moment :)
ROzbeans
21 years ago
Yes, women get free shit. Before the pre lvl 10 die with gear thing was implemented, i was sitting with a naked Caitlinn at lvl 7 in qeynos gearing up to go back into blackburrow to get my shit. Suddenly I'm handed bags and cheapie gear.
"Here hun, take these."
Blinks and then cancels trade. "Dude, I just died, my stuff (which is better than this crap) is in BB. I'm alright, thanks."
"Are you sure, hun"
Mentally I pull his tongue out and use it for garters. "Yes...I"m good."
I never took gear from anyone other than Vebran. I do think it implies something when you do and I didnt play to screw for gear. I know women who have and no, they were not friends simply because of that. Women who use men in EQ are disgusting. Almost as disgusting as the men who let themselves be played by them.
When I joined Triadica back in...shit 2002 or 2003 I was using this sig.
Can you imagine the tells I got? Even Krassus chimed in on the boards as was like, "Hey..." (twirls ends of mustache) "nice sig ya got there." He also added that his girlfriend hated me.
I played Caitlinn like a raging bitch, mostly because I was pissed off from being the fucking babysitter for Union for a year, recruiting and building up the guild, LEADING THE GUILD AND RAIDS and settling disputes with fuckers who took the game too seriously only to be booted by a fucking idiot and his slut fucking girlfriend. The original Union members I was officer's with, who did nothing but I love them still, left and these fucking...newbies, pushed me out of the guild.
Yeah still a little bitter.
So I joined Scarlet Horizon, was a total bitch (ask vulash) and then joined Triadica when finally I switched mains to a cleric because honestly I played a druid like one anyway which meant I didnt play a druid well AT ALL and I was kinda forced to go underground because wow i had pissed off a lot of people. =D
Women are territorial. All women who played EQ are and if they say they aren't, they're lying. I started because of Veb and I was 8 months pregnant. I started with a shaman but switched because I sucked. Switched to Caitlinn a druid, Caity a warrior (wow i sucked) to a cleric which I was half decent at being. The best cleric I had EVER played with was Meddiki, a man. Fucking A he was a good cleric and a great guy.
Triadica used to have these hormone filled fights in their cleric channel because of alanaya, yindarye and myself. Back when we ssra'd it, yindarye (who wasn't even 60) got played favorites by Sajan big time. Now, dont get me wrong, he's a good leader but a horrible strategist and has a poor judge of character. He gave her the sleeper key first for 'all her help' and gave her srra blood loot first as well. Both alanaya and I took over duties from her forcibly because she would take 30 mins to set up the fucking loop. I'd do it in 10 seconds.
"OH i thought I was doing the loop."
'Uh, no you're not. Its done."
Players like Yindarye...yeah they gave the rest of us a bad name. Not that I was a stellar example of a cleric and player. I had/have my issues, most of which I've prevailed over but as far as EQ and being a cleric was concerned, I took it seriously. Seeing other clerics fuck up didnt really piss me off, only if they were doing the same god damn mistakes everytime. And mostly it was both men AND women who sucked equally.
There are those who know content in and out but refuse to lead. That would be Vebran. He knew everything but never ever wanted to take a role in leading and only did in some guilds because I was already an officer. Like in AOT - he refused to be class leader because the other bards sucked. Veb would get angry and just flat out refuse to do shit so he never ranked as 'the best of the best' but again he gave 2 shits.
I've lead raids. Early content raids, nothing higher than Ssra actually. I've been an officer and was one with Anulien in AOT. He and I got into it about distrubition over loot and he refused to talk to me for like 2 weeks, I think. Yes I was the babysitter. I was the recruiter as well (hi2U tits). I got called hun and wanted to skin the men who did it and feed the flesh to my dog. Women HAVE to get bitchy in EQ to be listened to. Some women need to cyber fuck to gain position HI LINNA. Some women played eq to get attention, but almost always they played because their spouses or boyfriends did.
Women aren't competitive with MMORPG's. We're just not, I'm not. It annoys Veb that I dont know as much as he does about my own god damn hunter in WOW. Raid? Eh I'd rather write or do art to be honest. Society did this to me, its not my fault!
As to cyber? Yes most women are whores, even if they're not. That's in the eq manuel I believe, page 30 under 'Classes'. If we flirted, we're whores. If we said, 'hun or dear' we're whores but you assholes still did what we wanted when we called you sweetie, now didn't you? DONT LIE! The best let down is an honest one ending with either 'sweetie, dear, honey, or pookie'. I was told Caitlinn was known as a bitch whore. I'm alright with that. Why?
Its better to be hated than forgotten and isn't that what its all about anyway? :wink
"Here hun, take these."
Blinks and then cancels trade. "Dude, I just died, my stuff (which is better than this crap) is in BB. I'm alright, thanks."
"Are you sure, hun"
Mentally I pull his tongue out and use it for garters. "Yes...I"m good."
I never took gear from anyone other than Vebran. I do think it implies something when you do and I didnt play to screw for gear. I know women who have and no, they were not friends simply because of that. Women who use men in EQ are disgusting. Almost as disgusting as the men who let themselves be played by them.
When I joined Triadica back in...shit 2002 or 2003 I was using this sig.
Can you imagine the tells I got? Even Krassus chimed in on the boards as was like, "Hey..." (twirls ends of mustache) "nice sig ya got there." He also added that his girlfriend hated me.
I played Caitlinn like a raging bitch, mostly because I was pissed off from being the fucking babysitter for Union for a year, recruiting and building up the guild, LEADING THE GUILD AND RAIDS and settling disputes with fuckers who took the game too seriously only to be booted by a fucking idiot and his slut fucking girlfriend. The original Union members I was officer's with, who did nothing but I love them still, left and these fucking...newbies, pushed me out of the guild.
Yeah still a little bitter.
So I joined Scarlet Horizon, was a total bitch (ask vulash) and then joined Triadica when finally I switched mains to a cleric because honestly I played a druid like one anyway which meant I didnt play a druid well AT ALL and I was kinda forced to go underground because wow i had pissed off a lot of people. =D
Women are territorial. All women who played EQ are and if they say they aren't, they're lying. I started because of Veb and I was 8 months pregnant. I started with a shaman but switched because I sucked. Switched to Caitlinn a druid, Caity a warrior (wow i sucked) to a cleric which I was half decent at being. The best cleric I had EVER played with was Meddiki, a man. Fucking A he was a good cleric and a great guy.
Triadica used to have these hormone filled fights in their cleric channel because of alanaya, yindarye and myself. Back when we ssra'd it, yindarye (who wasn't even 60) got played favorites by Sajan big time. Now, dont get me wrong, he's a good leader but a horrible strategist and has a poor judge of character. He gave her the sleeper key first for 'all her help' and gave her srra blood loot first as well. Both alanaya and I took over duties from her forcibly because she would take 30 mins to set up the fucking loop. I'd do it in 10 seconds.
"OH i thought I was doing the loop."
'Uh, no you're not. Its done."
Players like Yindarye...yeah they gave the rest of us a bad name. Not that I was a stellar example of a cleric and player. I had/have my issues, most of which I've prevailed over but as far as EQ and being a cleric was concerned, I took it seriously. Seeing other clerics fuck up didnt really piss me off, only if they were doing the same god damn mistakes everytime. And mostly it was both men AND women who sucked equally.
There are those who know content in and out but refuse to lead. That would be Vebran. He knew everything but never ever wanted to take a role in leading and only did in some guilds because I was already an officer. Like in AOT - he refused to be class leader because the other bards sucked. Veb would get angry and just flat out refuse to do shit so he never ranked as 'the best of the best' but again he gave 2 shits.
I've lead raids. Early content raids, nothing higher than Ssra actually. I've been an officer and was one with Anulien in AOT. He and I got into it about distrubition over loot and he refused to talk to me for like 2 weeks, I think. Yes I was the babysitter. I was the recruiter as well (hi2U tits). I got called hun and wanted to skin the men who did it and feed the flesh to my dog. Women HAVE to get bitchy in EQ to be listened to. Some women need to cyber fuck to gain position HI LINNA. Some women played eq to get attention, but almost always they played because their spouses or boyfriends did.
Women aren't competitive with MMORPG's. We're just not, I'm not. It annoys Veb that I dont know as much as he does about my own god damn hunter in WOW. Raid? Eh I'd rather write or do art to be honest. Society did this to me, its not my fault!
As to cyber? Yes most women are whores, even if they're not. That's in the eq manuel I believe, page 30 under 'Classes'. If we flirted, we're whores. If we said, 'hun or dear' we're whores but you assholes still did what we wanted when we called you sweetie, now didn't you? DONT LIE! The best let down is an honest one ending with either 'sweetie, dear, honey, or pookie'. I was told Caitlinn was known as a bitch whore. I'm alright with that. Why?
Its better to be hated than forgotten and isn't that what its all about anyway? :wink
Anulien
21 years ago
True story, it was a running joke to call mae hun often in ochat. And if we really wanted to be mean it was a combination of hun and Mael. She really likes to be called Mael I hear. :shock:
Good work, hun.
Maelarya
I got called hun and wanted to skin the men who did it and feed the flesh to my dog.
True story, it was a running joke to call mae hun often in ochat. And if we really wanted to be mean it was a combination of hun and Mael. She really likes to be called Mael I hear. :shock:
Maelarya
Its better to be hated than forgotten and isn't that what its all about anyway? :wink
Good work, hun.
Anulien
21 years ago
Impossible, my e-peen is so tough it has it own arms to flex. Wasn't rare for me to screw up at all, I am positive it happened every raid and I would make some comment about how much I lose.
Only at the gaybar.
Gilae
when Anu fucks up (rare, but it happens) I often say nothing and overlook it...cause I'm a kind and loving friend that wouldn't want to hurt his e-penis
Impossible, my e-peen is so tough it has it own arms to flex. Wasn't rare for me to screw up at all, I am positive it happened every raid and I would make some comment about how much I lose.
Gilae
I also know he offers equipment to guys however.
Only at the gaybar.
pharren
21 years ago
i slowed EVERY incoming mob with my shaman, ESPECIALLY if veyah was tanking1!!!1!!!
i dont like to be called hun. sometimes it makes me angry irl. i dont like watching people call each other hun. most times it makes me angry irl. its just repulsive to me. i dont play EQ to flirt with women (men) who live 50000 miles away.i dont play EQ to make friends. i bought EQ because i thought you could play it alone, offline, like diablo.
maybe the hun thing gets under my skin because i am turned off by most "aggressive" females. not that i think its bad for a woman to make the first move on a man, its just a certain combination of traits (that i dont have the time to think about to put into words because im going to be late for work in a few minutes) that when added up are just ... not good. when i was "growing up" and learning about the real world, i had to tell not one but two females to get their hands off me before i knocked their teeth out (actual quote). imo equality works both ways and should not be selective ;)
then again im the guy who chases a girl until she gives in, and then im not interested anymore.
they get what they want, and they never want it again
DERAIL OFF ~~!!~
Why does every shaman feel the need to slow everyone mob incoming to a raid before it reaches a tank? MY HP BAR READS 14K YOURS DOES NOT, LET ME AGGRO IT. I hated shaman almost as much as I hated clerics.
i slowed EVERY incoming mob with my shaman, ESPECIALLY if veyah was tanking1!!!1!!!
i dont like to be called hun. sometimes it makes me angry irl. i dont like watching people call each other hun. most times it makes me angry irl. its just repulsive to me. i dont play EQ to flirt with women (men) who live 50000 miles away.i dont play EQ to make friends. i bought EQ because i thought you could play it alone, offline, like diablo.
maybe the hun thing gets under my skin because i am turned off by most "aggressive" females. not that i think its bad for a woman to make the first move on a man, its just a certain combination of traits (that i dont have the time to think about to put into words because im going to be late for work in a few minutes) that when added up are just ... not good. when i was "growing up" and learning about the real world, i had to tell not one but two females to get their hands off me before i knocked their teeth out (actual quote). imo equality works both ways and should not be selective ;)
then again im the guy who chases a girl until she gives in, and then im not interested anymore.
they get what they want, and they never want it again
DERAIL OFF ~~!!~
Guest
21 years ago
In the defence of some people (like myself) I have to say that when I started playing EQ, I HATED being called hon or saying it. However, now, its one of my most used terms. I blame my friends. =/ Sometimes it has nothing to do with agressiveness, but one thing I do is chat with my friends in game, and because i listen, there have been several people in the past (this both made me feel good and aggravated the crap out of me at times) that would come to me with their probs. I literally joked with our GL to make me "guild psychiatrist". When someone is having a problem, and you are being concerned, and you are a mother, you tend to call them pet names. When my son is crying cause he fell, I say" Whatsa matter baby?". When some person is crying to me about what happened to them, chances are I say the same thing. Then, after you get so used to doing so, it just comes natural to say it. /shrug
So, thats my post on calling folks hon. I still hate it. I hate doing it. But I do it, nonetheless.
pharren
Why does every shaman feel the need to slow everyone mob incoming to a raid before it reaches a tank? MY HP BAR READS 14K YOURS DOES NOT, LET ME AGGRO IT. I hated shaman almost as much as I hated clerics.
i slowed EVERY incoming mob with my shaman, ESPECIALLY if veyah was tanking1!!!1!!!
i dont like to be called hun. sometimes it makes me angry irl. i dont like watching people call each other hun. most times it makes me angry irl. its just repulsive to me. i dont play EQ to flirt with women (men) who live 50000 miles away.i dont play EQ to make friends. i bought EQ because i thought you could play it alone, offline, like diablo.
maybe the hun thing gets under my skin because i am turned off by most "aggressive" females. not that i think its bad for a woman to make the first move on a man, its just a certain combination of traits (that i dont have the time to think about to put into words because im going to be late for work in a few minutes) that when added up are just ... not good. when i was "growing up" and learning about the real world, i had to tell not one but two females to get their hands off me before i knocked their teeth out (actual quote). imo equality works both ways and should not be selective ;)
then again im the guy who chases a girl until she gives in, and then im not interested anymore.
they get what they want, and they never want it again
DERAIL OFF ~~!!~
In the defence of some people (like myself) I have to say that when I started playing EQ, I HATED being called hon or saying it. However, now, its one of my most used terms. I blame my friends. =/ Sometimes it has nothing to do with agressiveness, but one thing I do is chat with my friends in game, and because i listen, there have been several people in the past (this both made me feel good and aggravated the crap out of me at times) that would come to me with their probs. I literally joked with our GL to make me "guild psychiatrist". When someone is having a problem, and you are being concerned, and you are a mother, you tend to call them pet names. When my son is crying cause he fell, I say" Whatsa matter baby?". When some person is crying to me about what happened to them, chances are I say the same thing. Then, after you get so used to doing so, it just comes natural to say it. /shrug
So, thats my post on calling folks hon. I still hate it. I hate doing it. But I do it, nonetheless.
ROzbeans
21 years ago
Anu's not kidding. In fact I about ripped Discordan'ts head off and shit down his throat when he did it to me. I did it to Offensive/bruuce too =D
Verileah
21 years ago
Jesus Christ, some of you guys are -really- anti "hon".
Pharren, Mae, I just want you to know that I make special efforts to not call you hon because I know it bothers you, but I probably slip sometimes. But calling someone "hon" is -not- a come on.
I think this is a case of a culture clash. For you guys, perhaps, hon=RAVISH ME NOW! whereas for me, hon=everybody's name. Hon is just something you say when you address someone *shrugs*.
As far as other terms of endearment...I would hope my friends know the difference between friendly affection and a come on :(. Or is affection so intolerable?
Pharren, Mae, I just want you to know that I make special efforts to not call you hon because I know it bothers you, but I probably slip sometimes. But calling someone "hon" is -not- a come on.
I think this is a case of a culture clash. For you guys, perhaps, hon=RAVISH ME NOW! whereas for me, hon=everybody's name. Hon is just something you say when you address someone *shrugs*.
As far as other terms of endearment...I would hope my friends know the difference between friendly affection and a come on :(. Or is affection so intolerable?
Anulien
21 years ago
Yes, stop touching me!
Verileah
Or is affection so intolerable?
Yes, stop touching me!
ROzbeans
21 years ago
Oh yeah that's totally different. I just object to being called hun by people I dont know well. In the 2 instances I mentioned, i felt both were talking down to me. Like they were dumbing up their explanation because I'm a woman. Friends calling me hun doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I call friends 'pookie'.