DDO

I considered it, but a few details turned me off on it. Namely the way they handle combat.

I'm sure Mike will buy a copy to see =x I'm mmo'd out.

WoW is all the mmo you need

I'm considering DDO. If my RL friends play, I will check it out. Some of it I like, some of it I dont. It looks like a Guild Wars clone. Except the only XP you get is from successful adventures. I had it in my hand to try in beta....but I put it back.

I was in the beta, and I honestly don't know what it was but it didn't grab me like EQ, WoW, and Horizons did. I enjoyed it while I was logged in, but didn't have that I want to log back in feeling about it. We're still debating on whether to get it when it goes live or not.

if its like playing regular dnd heck yes i'd buy it. well maybe lol. depends if i know anyone who'll be playing.

i dont see many character creation SS but i could be looking in the wrong places. and hey! wheres druid =(

No druids from what I understand...but....there ARE BARDS!!!

you mean an actual 20 mins of roleplaying for every 40 mins of arguing about the rules??

rofl true true.

ok if its like the few months i played dnd with a good DM who wouldnt let the newbs question the rules then heck yes! =D

isnt this game out now? whos played it

I played beta... I liked rogue skills but not combat.

and I'm an iron fisted DM.. no questioning me.

i was super gung ho til i heard from soemone who was betaing it that the combat was super input and pretty slow. I'm spoiled by EQ I guess, just let me hit attack and go, I don't want a turn by turn basis game, I'd play something like Wizardry if I did

I'm playing. It isn't like most MMOs really. It doesn't have the raiding type competition to "grab" you really so if that is what your after you won't enjoy it.

Combat is most definately not turn based. Combat is actually more involving and fast then EQ - although the game isn't super hard.

I'd do a whole write up about the game with pros and cons - but I"m going to go play :P

Y'all need to post screenshots.

looking forward to that write up..

hmmmm if combat isn't slow and sucky then my main reason for not trying this is moot. if / when you have time Vul if you could post some screens or tell us about it I would be super appreciative

Combat is more like CoX than EQ, you have to pick what kind of attack's to make rather than blindly hit autoattack and tab.

I can take some screens and post them. My cleric is 5.2 and LB's rogue is 5.1 we are on Xorait.

Ok I'll do a quick write up - though I think it will be hard for me to convey the feel and appeal of the game. Haven't messed with SSs yet - I'll have Grimknot do a followup also.

To set the scene. Imagine City of Heros without the mobs in the city. That is - There is no "world" - there is simply one city. You can't run around and explore or venture from city to city or out in the wilderness. *Every* *single* combat that takes place is in an instance.

Instead there are different areas to the city. Keep in mind I've got 3 level 4ish 5ish characters and haven't yet seen teh higher stuff (which is odd for me - in EQ and wow I had one main and petty alts only). First you start out in the harbor area (newbie area before this but it's very brief) and stay in this area for about 1-3 levels. After that you run a quest and it opens access to the Market area. Branching from here are 4 "Merchant house" areas/zones. After that I have no clue. It should be mentioned that the "quest" to get access to this area is the highest xp quest you can run for that level set and is constantly being done over and over by people - so finding a group to complete this is not a problem at all. Each of these areas has people that need quests run for them - many in taverns for that classic D&D feel. Some are short, some are long, some are outdoors, some are in sewers, some are in houses or warehouses. Some involve simply slaughtering mobs, some involve lots of traps and secrets, some involve puzzle solving or riddle solving. Most are a mix.

Quests themselves : Each quest will tell you what level it is, and whether it's short, medium, or long. Each quest has the option to set to hard difficulty for more xp and better loot, and also elite. You have to beat it on normal to get hard ect. Not recommended for below level 5 for annoying permanent blindness reasons only a level 5 cleric can cure.

Each quest has a main objective. Usually main objectives are added as you progress. Completing this gives you a base amount of experience. Each quest will also typically have side objectives that add to this base. These are completely optional, although in a few cases you kind of have to do them to finish. (Example - OPtional - kill guardian Roz the Vile - Main "loot chest for random item that Guardian Roz the Vile is guarding). There are other "set side objectives" I'll call them that give bonus % to this experience. One is discovering secret doors - get enough you'll get a 7% bonus. It may go higher but thats what I typically see. Another is disabling traps - the more you disable the higher bonus % you get. Another is breaking random crates/vases/boxes throughout the dungeon. You can get a mischief bonus of 5%, a vandal bonus of 7% or a ransack bonus of 10% depending on the % of shit you tear up. Another is a slaughter bonus. You can earn 10, 15 or 25% bonus xp for killing certain %s of monsters in the dungeon. You do not get xp per monster kill - ever. (It may seem like it if a certain side object includes killing one particular creature, but the xp is for the quest, not the kill itself technically).

Also - There can be penalties. If someone is over the level by a certain amount you get docked a %. Say a level 5 is in a level 3 dungeon PL"ing a friend - they'll get 20% less experience. If you wipe and have to release your spirit and run back in - you get docked a certain % for reentering each time. You also lose a certain % for each time you repeat a quest. SAy I run a particular dungeon 5 times - each time I'm getting less xp. There are NO penalties for how many people are in a party (6 is max). If I go and solo a dungeon, and you go and do it with 6 people - and we complete the same objectives and are the same level - you get the same xp I got for solo'ing it.

Death and shrines. You do not regain mana or health over time. There are only 3 ways really to regain these. One is in a tavern - you can eat and drink to speed it up - but you will naturally regain both in a tavern (you can only eat and drink in the tavern too). The other main way is shrines. The third way is by expendables, or a cleric healing you.

Shrines are little rooms spread throughout the dungeon as a mostly safe place to rest. Really short dungeons will have 0, others 1 ect - the most I've seen is 2 or 3 shrines in any dungeon. When you rest at a shrine - all your "x per day" items and abilities refresh - you regain all your mana - and you regain an amount of health based on the highest healing modifier in the room. What I mean by that is there is a "healing" skill - and when a party rests they all gain HP based off the person with the highest skills ability (that is nearby). Also at each rest shrine is a resurection shrine. This will restore spirits to 1 hp and 0 mana. You can only use each shrine once per dungeon.

So what happens when you die? You turn into a little ghost, but you can only roam in like a 10 foot radius around your corpse. You can run farther, but a count down begins and 10 seconds later you are warped back to your corpse. In order to ressurect - someone has to pick up your soulstone (then you are tethered to this) and take you to a shrine to res. In some cases you may get lucky and die beside one, but typically they are behind closed doors. If this isn't working for you - or your whole party wipes - you have to release and pop back to the tavern your bound at and then rest and run back to the dungeon. If you don't make it back within 5 minutes though the dungeon resets - you can leave someone as a ghost to hold it. Doing this reduces your xp a little though, and also you collect xp debt in small chunks for dying. This isn't a huge amount, but if you are dying alot it will quickly add up to more then the dungeon is worth. At higher levels clerics get a spell to res you, but I do not know the details on this as far as xp debt ect.

Loot. Loot is simliar to D&D by the book. It is generated by a random table. Each person gets their own loot. For example. Grimknot and I defeat Roz the Vile and Vex the Cruel the evil sisters threatening the poor peasants of the sewers. We get a chest. Inside I will find 2-7ish items randomly rolled for me only, and then Grimknot will find the same for him only. It is random - so I might get an item that is awesome for him, and he might get one that is awesome for me. YOu can get regular junk items, potions, scrolls, gems, masterwork items, magic items - pretty much anything. The higher the level of the dungeon the better the table. For longer quests typically the quest giver will randomly generate a table of slightly nicer items and let you pick one on top of any chests you found in the dungeon. Chests by the way aren't just after bosses, there are secret doors and areas that have them also. Also there are "named" mobs that ca spawn in dungeons in areas and have chests. The last main way to obtain items is by collecting these things call collectables. Certain NPCs throughout the city need certain items in certain amounts. Once you have those they give you a random reward from a set table. So during our dungeons we might gather stuff from mushrooms - then there is a mushroom stuff collector. He will need 3 commons, 2 uncommons, or 1 rare of these stuffs to give us an item. He has a set table of items he can give us for them, and randomly gives one (typically potions and scrolls for low level stuff and items for higher/rarer)

There is no bazaar - no auction house - and because the UI is a bit clunky there isn't really a player market to speak of. Obviously at high end stuff people sell to each other, but you dont' see people shouting "omglmao I am the ube and want to sell the ube LS +800 of Roz slaying". Because of this, and because you get your own loot tables people tend to be very generous in groups. If someone gets something they don't need and you do - typically they'll give it to you if it isn't some extaordinary item. What else are they going to do with it? Vendor it for a much smaller amount then it is worth, and cash is pretty easy to come by from all the shit you vendor.

There is one exception. There are things called pawnbrokers. Each of the merchant houses has one. These brokers will give you slightly better prices for items, but only magical items of that type they sell, and only good ones. Players can buy these same items from these brokers.

For example. Generic shield vendor will buy anything, but he only sells shields - you can't buy what people have sold him. Pawnbroker bob the magical armor vendor will only buy good magical armor/shields, but then anything he buys goes onto his list of sellable items (at a much higher price) and people can buy these. The ONLY items on his list are those sold to him and this list is reset during server resets and possibly at certain intervals (no one is sure). I've heard that at higher levels for the top end gear there is actually sort of a market and gold is good to have then.

Oh - there is indeed item repair . On top of that every time you repair an item it has a chance to take a permanent point of dmg. It is very slow - and you could use a sword for a long ass time without worrying about it, but eventually it will be worthless. I guess this is their system of keeping the world from being to flooded by items.

I always lose my train of thought in these super long posts.

Characters - To me this is where the game really shines. Most of the typical D&D classes are in the game. There are no monks or Druids. The rules are based off 3.5 except what they had to change for real time combat and a few other tweaks. There are no prestige classes yet also.

Multiclassing is very viable. Because of the number of skills, feats, classes, the ability to point buy abilities scores - the variation of character types is nearly endless. There are just so many neat/cool concepts to try out you could play 20 different characters to level 10/20 and it would be different. YOu could make a fighter that is a pure tank - a fighter, barbarian, fighter/barbarian, or add ina rogue mix with either that does massive 2 handed dmg - a fighter/ranger or fighter/rogue or fighter or fighter/ranger/rogue that specializes in bowing and doing dmg that way. A paladin that tanks - a level1 sorcerer/level 9 paladin that can tank with lots of spell points to be a good healer. The list really goes on and on. Obviously there is some min/maxing people do - but there are so many combos people argue for pages and pages on teh forums about the best way to approach even one concept. Plus - since there is no raiding, and since there is no "holy trinity" approach - you don't even have to min/max cookie cutter to be fine in a group. You can play something fun, and as long as you don't suck as a person - you'll be fine. I leveled a wizard to 4.2 - decided I liked it but not with my current group - remade as a 3cleric/1barbarian with the throught of adding 6 levels of fighter after and going 2h dmg with some healing, then decided I enjoyed melee'ing to much and remade as a pure tank - it's a keeper. Grimknot is a 3 fighter/2ranger atm and amazing with a bow. Greywood went pure rogue and seems to really like it, though he has a pure paladin also he loves.

Leveling - As of right now the current level cap is 10. They plan to make it 12 in April and keep going till 20. As you can see this raises some issues in online gaming. Either it's to easy to level and everyone maxes out quickly, or its so long in between levels that people grow bored of no progression. What they did was add "mini levels" in between. Each race and class gets a list of "enhancements" that add to their aspect. At each "mini level" you get to add 1. YOu can only have 4 max so after level 1.4 you have to replace an old one if you add 1. A few examples - Wizards have enhancements that add to their dmg with each type of magic (so you could pick fire and be better with fire ect) they also get enhancements that add spell points - Dwarves get enhancements that add to their constitution, or that add to their ability to use axes. Some of the enhancements in the game are pretty innovative, and add yet another way for characters to be completely different then each other. So in effect there are about 50 levels right now. 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.0 ect. Getting to level 10.4 is actually alot slower then I thought it would be - however it still isn't anything like getting a character to 50/60 in EQ was back in the day.

Combat Ok this is what temprah wanted. Combat is real time. In addition it's a bit more involved then say EQ or WoW because of a few things. You *can* just turn auto attack on, but there are alot of other things you need to do also. As a fighter I can block with a shield and add to my AC and also absorb dmg, but not swing during that. So if I time it right I can see a mob swinging at me - block it (there IS a delay so you have to time it) then pop it real fast with my sword before blocking its next attack. Also you can tumble by using the block key and strafing - you'll roll in a direction and it greatly increases your AC depending on your tumble skil. So you can still be hit, but if your rolling away from attacks the odds go way down. I used to overagro with my wizard then just tumble all around the damn room. There is also the ability to bash it with my shield real fast between its attacks also. There are also penalties to your roll for attacking while moving (unless you get certain feats) and mobs do NOT stand still while you beat them. Ranged mobs and casters will jumpb ack from you if you try to get close to hit them - while melee mobs will strafe around you, or even try to flank you. So there can be alot of moving around during combat - much like combat would really be if I, Vulash the person, went out trying to slay kobolds in my local sewer. It makes tanking interesting trying to keep all the stuff on you as it runs around the room to get away from you or get in a better position. Oh and really - there is no main tanking really. I mean there can be, but not like wow or eq at all.

Another thing - mobs cannot go through you. So imagine. I walk up to a door - I pass a listen check (or have done it before) and know there are a shitton of mobs behind this door waiting to kill my mage friend and I'm a fighter. I can stand in the door. Open the door - then just block the door off holding my shield up in front of me while my mage friends fireballs their asses to hell and they can't get through me to get to him. Of course they get casters too ;p

There are also a ton of stealthed mobs in the game that like to sneak into the back ranks and attack pour casters. I thinkt he combat is very fun, and it doesn't feel mind numbing or like grinding.

Casters have to really aim their spells too. If they cast burning hands it casts in front of them - there is no auto hit or spam one spell like wow. If they miss with it , or if a mob happens to jump back at the same time - tough luck wasted spell. Of couse alot of spells are targeted by design and don't have this issue.

One thing I find really refreshing is there is no "exploiting". They expect you to use terrain - I mean - it's fucking terrain - use it. If some giant ass monster is trying to eat my shit and he's large and stupid and I can get way up on top of a wall with only a small ladder and pelt his ass with spells or arrows - then damn sweet he's going down and Im not getting hit and no GM is showing up to say "sorry u r teh banned". He also can't magically warp on top of me or attack me fro m50 feet below by attacking my shadow on the ground.

One more thing - Traps right now are in set places - So once you've done a dungeon you know where to find them. In the future they plan to make it "random" which I think will make the game alot more fun - especially for a rogue. However even at set places traps are still very deadly.

So overall -

Cons: The UI really sucks - I mean it isn't horrible, but it's clunky. And there is no "/shout" or "/ooc" ect. There is a social panel to find people to group with, but it's a bit buggy for the guild stuff.

There is no world to explore - this game is about character developement, not about exploring.

There is no raiding - well not really. There are like 12 man raids but thats just a large group in my mind. Because of this you won't find that aspect of MMO in this game. In fact I don't consider this like any other "mmo" because it plays more like a good single player game - only online with people. That applies to the mood - this is NOT a single player game in the aspect of solo'ing. While solo'ing is possible for a few certain combinations at certain levels - this is not a solo game. There is 0 advantage to solo, and it's alot slower to solo, and harder. I do it occasionally waiting on someone to log on, but really I just waste my time. This is a group game.

The game is still a little buggy, but hey aren't they all.

I'm sick of making lists. This game is fun for character development, but nto for raiding progression - epeens - or for large social stuff (like sitting in ooc talking about boys 2 men) You will want to play with friends, or join a guild to get to know people pretty quick and have a group base - because grouping is a must and having steady groups owns. The fun of this game is in leveling itself - not in racing to max level like EQ and WoW. I don't feel like I"m playing and going through hell for months just to be able to finally "Play". I'm "playing" right now.

I should also comment - the game has a MUCH MUCH MUCH more mature playerbase. I've met a few people of course that are idiots, or really young, but not very many at all. At first I avoided PuGs, but Now that I've been in a few I'm amazed at how good of groups you can get, and how cool of people you meet in pugs. It's like 80% of the population is actualy good and mature. There are still a few bad seeds that can make pugs go bad and guild groups are still better, but at least you can tolerate pugs

Also there is a built in voice program that most people use. So you will at least want speakers or be gimped. We've booted people in our groups because 5 of us were talking and the 6th refused to turn theirs on and ran through every trap - and there is no sense typing it and saying it at high speed. Grimknot can't talk because he is on dial up and there are issues, but he can still hear us.

I'm sure I'll think of more later, or there will be questions. Realize please I've only played a couple of weeks - also if someone else is playing and I said something that is wrong please point it out.

One more thing - the game comes with a 10 day guest pass for someone. So if you have a friend playing bum their pass - or like for Temprah and Xandare just buy one copy and one of you use the 10 days then decide if you want to keep playing and buy the 2nd copy

wow... just wow. Thank you *SO* much Vul!!!!!! It does sound really good!! We've got to look into this seriously now.. eq 1 / 2 is already feeling boring, mainly because once again it's PuG's for us and eq people seem to all be retards (at least on Xeg)

I have noticed there are a ton of shitty players in eq now myself. Nice for the most part but just horrid skills.

Heh I 3 boxed tipt(2 DPS, 1 slower) last night so I didnt have to rely on retards.

I may check out DDO at some point. Thanks for the info Vul.

S