Round One: OOC
Talk amongst yourselves here
SnowDragon
18 years ago
You know we are all assuming he was hung could he have not been choked with the rope. I mean it was Pinual's death either way. But who is either tall enough if he was hung or strong enough if he was choked to do it??
FyreGarnett
18 years ago
it was assumed to be a suicide - so it makes more sense of a "rope" was used that he hung himself
lemmy101
18 years ago
Haha that's brilliant. :) along with the "I'm a townie thing"... Not quite convinced yet but given me cause to look deeper...
Black rabbit
Four mafia and a SK can completely devastate a group of townies. We're not so numerous that we can blow off a day. :P
Jinheim;86307
How do you know there are four mafia? With 20 players I would expect five, maybe even six mafia based on what we've done in past games.
Haha that's brilliant. :) along with the "I'm a townie thing"... Not quite convinced yet but given me cause to look deeper...
SnowDragon
18 years ago
True I mean I know the socks were carried by our SK but was the socks left there???
Den
18 years ago
I still have to reread everything before I can vote; however, it seems to me the person with the most votes early on, is probably a townie. Since mafia know more than one person playing in the game, it would seem to me they will try to band together to get rid of the townies as quickly as possible.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
pharren
18 years ago
ok here are some more clues. some of these have already been mentioned, so for that, i apologize. i left out anything that i thought was purely coincidental. for example, domo being a psychopath in his bio doesnt necessarily mean he is the SK. likewise, Talia Brady (Jetamio) being described as "often in trouble for fighting" and obviously troubled over her parents murder, doesnt mean she is the SK.
most of these point to the SK, as i havent really found any good mafia clues from the bios or Pinual's death. also, i apologize in advance to The Azig. i do not mean to jump on the bandwagon, but damn, there sure is a lot of evidence pointing at you :tnbc however, im not quite sure i believe you are the SK. so, here goes!~
:bullet1 DAN VILLANOVA (The Azig)
just this stuff alone could be pretty incriminating, not to mention the things brought up earlier about competitiveness (though i believe that was linking him to mafia). ole dantes could easily lift somebody smaller than him off the ground, or however the hanging was accomplished. there was a bit in the kill thread about "push him over the edge" but that may have been figurative, since the killer had already slid down the pole, as opposed to climbing up it to meet Pinual.
:bullet1 SPAZ (nickenstien)
i already mentioned the "standing very still" link earlier, when the mafia passed him by as he "slipped into the doorway of the bathroom". still a solid lead imo :P
good at improvising, are you? you make explosives and other devices out of discarded, broken toys and household chemicals, do you? how about making a NOOSE out of A PAIR OF SOCKS you murderous scum!
we dont really know much about how Spaz interacts with other people, or how he feels about them, other than he had trouble identifying with his peers and making friends.
:bullet1 LYNN ARMOND (Britt)
this is admittedly a pretty weak connection, but im throwing it out there anyways. shes 6 years old ffs. i cant see her lifting/pushing Pinual by herself. then again, there was "Cookies" from The Stand...
this is a "shepherd" type clue, albeit a very weak one. she likes to fix things, she wants to help Pinual.
a little bit stronger, but still probably just circumstantial evidence.
:bullet1 EMILIO SALVAGGIO (Blackrabbit)
lots of links here! he could either be SK or mafia (yeah yeah, i know)... the clues point to SK, but something she said in this thread points to mafia:
how is it that you know how many mafia members there are? i dont see it posted anywhere, and when i asked a mod yesterday, i was told that it was "an unknown number"... WHOOPS!
ok now to Emilio-based clues
both stealth and infantry tactics are a strong link to the SK. stealth in hiding from the mafia and sliding down the pole and landing silently. infantry tactics in hanging a dude by a pair of socks. thats some skills. i heard american special forces learn to kill people with blades of grass and such.
perfectly suited to killing somebody and making it appear to be a suicide. also, the killer is smooth-talking Pinual.
not to mention the fact that being torn away from his twin brother might have unstabilized him mentally...
:bullet1 GRENN ROSBY (Hvesha)
again, just pointing to the physical ability to kill somebody in the manner Pinual was killed
more possible "shepherd" references.
most of these point to the SK, as i havent really found any good mafia clues from the bios or Pinual's death. also, i apologize in advance to The Azig. i do not mean to jump on the bandwagon, but damn, there sure is a lot of evidence pointing at you :tnbc however, im not quite sure i believe you are the SK. so, here goes!~
:bullet1 DAN VILLANOVA (The Azig)
Height: 5’9, Tall for his age with an athletic build.
Weight: 115 lbs (52 Kg.) Lean and muscular
Specialty: Athletics and perhaps Close Combat it would seem.
just this stuff alone could be pretty incriminating, not to mention the things brought up earlier about competitiveness (though i believe that was linking him to mafia). ole dantes could easily lift somebody smaller than him off the ground, or however the hanging was accomplished. there was a bit in the kill thread about "push him over the edge" but that may have been figurative, since the killer had already slid down the pole, as opposed to climbing up it to meet Pinual.
:bullet1 SPAZ (nickenstien)
Specialty: Explosives, Lock-Picking, standing _very very_ still indeed.
i already mentioned the "standing very still" link earlier, when the mafia passed him by as he "slipped into the doorway of the bathroom". still a solid lead imo :P
His keen use of donated broken-toys and household sanitisation products to effect his miraculous escapes, was what led to his early training in lock-picking and explosives.
good at improvising, are you? you make explosives and other devices out of discarded, broken toys and household chemicals, do you? how about making a NOOSE out of A PAIR OF SOCKS you murderous scum!
we dont really know much about how Spaz interacts with other people, or how he feels about them, other than he had trouble identifying with his peers and making friends.
:bullet1 LYNN ARMOND (Britt)
this is admittedly a pretty weak connection, but im throwing it out there anyways. shes 6 years old ffs. i cant see her lifting/pushing Pinual by herself. then again, there was "Cookies" from The Stand...
the young girl was a borderline genius when it came to taking things apart and making them better.
this is a "shepherd" type clue, albeit a very weak one. she likes to fix things, she wants to help Pinual.
talks to the point where people are too annoyed to hang around her for very long.
a little bit stronger, but still probably just circumstantial evidence.
:bullet1 EMILIO SALVAGGIO (Blackrabbit)
lots of links here! he could either be SK or mafia (yeah yeah, i know)... the clues point to SK, but something she said in this thread points to mafia:
Four mafia and a SK can completely devastate a group of townies. We're not so numerous that we can blow off a day.
how is it that you know how many mafia members there are? i dont see it posted anywhere, and when i asked a mod yesterday, i was told that it was "an unknown number"... WHOOPS!
ok now to Emilio-based clues
Specialty: (Such as mathematics, gunnery, mechanics): Stealth, infantry tactics, sharpshooting.
Emilio, the best shot in his toon, a cunning fighter in null-grav, showing signs of being a master tactician
both stealth and infantry tactics are a strong link to the SK. stealth in hiding from the mafia and sliding down the pole and landing silently. infantry tactics in hanging a dude by a pair of socks. thats some skills. i heard american special forces learn to kill people with blades of grass and such.
Emilio was ever the smooth-talker, getting into mischief but never anywhere to be found when the trouble was discovered, leaving Armando to sort it out. As they grew older, the canny Emilio managed to make his mischief look more and more as if it were Armando's mischief.
perfectly suited to killing somebody and making it appear to be a suicide. also, the killer is smooth-talking Pinual.
not to mention the fact that being torn away from his twin brother might have unstabilized him mentally...
:bullet1 GRENN ROSBY (Hvesha)
Height: Tall
Weight: Meaty, but not in a chubby way
again, just pointing to the physical ability to kill somebody in the manner Pinual was killed
He and his mother then moved from the east coast to the farming heartland of the country.
So far he has been found to have a strong sense of loyalty and an unfailing determination to do what needs to be done.
more possible "shepherd" references.
pharren
18 years ago
well i see im not the only one who picked up the 4 mafia members thing. i feel vindicated. or some other similar feeling of victory. however, i still feel that the clues pointing towards Emilio indicate SK.
CaptainBinky
18 years ago
That would have made sense, except at the time you posted it's a tie, 1- all.
And now you've said that, obviously it's not going to get voted that way :D
Den;86317
however, it seems to me the person with the most votes early on, is probably a townie. Since mafia know more than one person playing in the game, it would seem to me they will try to band together to get rid of the townies as quickly as possible.
That would have made sense, except at the time you posted it's a tie, 1- all.
And now you've said that, obviously it's not going to get voted that way :D
MashPotato
18 years ago
Disregarding how the killing was actually done, since we don't know, we can take a look at the making of the weapon itself... it would take a tremendous amount of strength to tie two socks, which are thick and stretchy, tightly enough for it to be used to strangle someone. This perhaps points away from people who are light for their height (regardless of what their height actually is), since that indicates less muscle.
Sorry if someone's already mentioned this, this thread is long and I need to catch up ;)
Sorry if someone's already mentioned this, this thread is long and I need to catch up ;)
Rae
18 years ago
I just got home, so I have not read the ooc yet. These are my first impressions after reading the hit and bios.
For the SK
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
Aside from the obvious link, the SK certainly herded Pinual to his death.
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
Sound or the lack of it seems to be one of the key points for the SK hit. There are multiple references to sound or being unable to speak in Domo's bio.
From the hit:
There are many many references to dreaming in Domo's bio.
What is interesting is this quote from Domo's bio.
In describing his dream, Domo reveals that like Pinual he hears voices while he sleeps. In addition, Domo seems to know or understand Pinual. It could be because they have simlar dreams, but there is also this quote from Domo's bio.
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
In the hit, the SK is concerned about the state of Pinual's mind and how the teachers have pushed him and allowed him to continue even though he obviously needed help. In Domo's bio, he muses about a person's breaking point as a result of loss. Where loss of a loved one is the tragedy for Domo, not winning is the tragedy that pushed Pinual over the edge.
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
Both have references to sanity.
Sorry for the length.
For the SK
From the hit:
“I know. See me in the gym, 23:00.†Signed Sheppard
but most of their fellow soldiers made more noise than a herd of buffalo
From Domo's bio:
I shall live on as the Shepard of death
Aside from the obvious link, the SK certainly herded Pinual to his death.
From the hit:
but most of their fellow soldiers made more noise
The noise echoed through the corridors
When it was quiet again
landing soundlessly at the bottom
From Domo's bio:
Green was the color of choice which variation took his voice
He shall leave this sacred ground to live among other sounds.
The voice speaks with the sound of tortured children
Sound or the lack of it seems to be one of the key points for the SK hit. There are multiple references to sound or being unable to speak in Domo's bio.
From the hit:
the buggers were communicating through the fantasy game, dissecting his dreams while he slept.
There are many many references to dreaming in Domo's bio.
Domo returns to his room and begins dreaming
The little he is able to recall about his earlier childhood is derived from his dreams
What is interesting is this quote from Domo's bio.
A dark voice uses the vocal cords of a young child "Oh how the children will love a world of radiated candy and melted dreams."
the dark voice assumes control. The voice speaks with the sound of tortured children that carries as thunder.
In describing his dream, Domo reveals that like Pinual he hears voices while he sleeps. In addition, Domo seems to know or understand Pinual. It could be because they have simlar dreams, but there is also this quote from Domo's bio.
He understands the true nature of the universe that surrounds him
From the hit:
he was too caught up in the fantasy game, it was just unhealthy. And what did the teachers do? They encouraged him. The kid clearly had problems, but did they give him the help he so desperately needed?
From Domo's bio:
What is the weight of sorrow? The stopping point of tragedy? How much must one lose before they lose themselves?
In the hit, the SK is concerned about the state of Pinual's mind and how the teachers have pushed him and allowed him to continue even though he obviously needed help. In Domo's bio, he muses about a person's breaking point as a result of loss. Where loss of a loved one is the tragedy for Domo, not winning is the tragedy that pushed Pinual over the edge.
From the hit:
They relied on the genius that lay so close to the insanity
From Domo's bio:
Its touch is southing, its infection keep me sane
Both have references to sanity.
Sorry for the length.
Blackrabbit
18 years ago
Good grief. I was abstracting. I thought it was usually 1 mafia for every 4 or 5 townies or something, from previous games, so I picked a number around 4-5ish (1:4 ratio would be 16 townies, 4 mafia and an SK in a 21 person game) and went with it. I was just trying to make a point. It wasn't a "whoops" anything unless that ratio isn't something that's supposed to be bandied about... regardless, it was conjecture on my part. Maybe it's five, maybe it's six. I find it hard to believe though that a third of the players on this board are Mafia. Given the ease with which the mafia can coordinate attacks, that would make the townies easy pickins.
If you think the clues are pointing at me, fine, lynch my ass. But before you do bear this in mind:
1: You're totally forgetting what i just said about mixing up clues. I cannot be the person who smooth-talks Pinual AND the sharpshooting/gun-oriented mafia member.
2: I'm not the only one with a bio that's slanted toward gunnery and/or weaponry.
3: My character's height and weight are actually below average, based on the chart I used. If you're looking for someone to have lifted Pinual somehow, I can't tell you whether or not Emilio is capable of it, because we haven't been told jack-shit about Pinual's size, weight, height, age, or anything. I can say that I used an average 13-year-old height/weight chart, and went a bit below the curve.
I haven't figured out who I want to vote for, myself. I think the clues are all too vague at this point. I won't blame you for lynching me, but please read what I've said thus far and the point I'm trying to make, rather than jumping to retarded conclusions like I was a) presumptuous enough to claim to know exactly how many mafia there are or b) stupid enough to be Mafia and state how many there are. Please.
If you think the clues are pointing at me, fine, lynch my ass. But before you do bear this in mind:
1: You're totally forgetting what i just said about mixing up clues. I cannot be the person who smooth-talks Pinual AND the sharpshooting/gun-oriented mafia member.
2: I'm not the only one with a bio that's slanted toward gunnery and/or weaponry.
3: My character's height and weight are actually below average, based on the chart I used. If you're looking for someone to have lifted Pinual somehow, I can't tell you whether or not Emilio is capable of it, because we haven't been told jack-shit about Pinual's size, weight, height, age, or anything. I can say that I used an average 13-year-old height/weight chart, and went a bit below the curve.
I haven't figured out who I want to vote for, myself. I think the clues are all too vague at this point. I won't blame you for lynching me, but please read what I've said thus far and the point I'm trying to make, rather than jumping to retarded conclusions like I was a) presumptuous enough to claim to know exactly how many mafia there are or b) stupid enough to be Mafia and state how many there are. Please.
pharren
18 years ago
thank you for calling us retarded for playing the game :?
Keera
18 years ago
Pick me because I killed the whiny bitch.
Blackrabbit
18 years ago
I said the conclusion would be retarded. :( Not the players.
Keera
18 years ago
If only everything were this easy to figure out. Seems a bit simplistic but I must say good job!
Rae;86330
I just got home, so I have not read the ooc yet. These are my first impressions after reading the hit and bios.
For the SK
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
Aside from the obvious link, the SK certainly herded Pinual to his death.
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
Sound or the lack of it seems to be one of the key points for the SK hit. There are multiple references to sound or being unable to speak in Domo's bio.
From the hit:
There are many many references to dreaming in Domo's bio.
What is interesting is this quote from Domo's bio.
In describing his dream, Domo reveals that like Pinual he hears voices while he sleeps. In addition, Domo seems to know or understand Pinual. It could be because they have simlar dreams, but there is also this quote from Domo's bio.
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
In the hit, the SK is concerned about the state of Pinual's mind and how the teachers have pushed him and allowed him to continue even though he obviously needed help. In Domo's bio, he muses about a person's breaking point as a result of loss. Where loss of a loved one is the tragedy for Domo, not winning is the tragedy that pushed Pinual over the edge.
From the hit:
From Domo's bio:
Both have references to sanity.
Sorry for the length.
If only everything were this easy to figure out. Seems a bit simplistic but I must say good job!
Rae
18 years ago
Glad you like it. Don't worry. I have some love to share with the mafia too. :)
pharren
18 years ago
i didnt forget anything. did you read my post? i also didnt mention anything about sharpshooting or being gun-oriented. the big clues pointing to emilio (imo) are the stealth aspect, and the infantry training. the smooth-talking one is a bit of a reach, but ive seen real clues that were far more of a stretch.
at this point, nothing anybody can say can really exonerate themselves, because the clues are not well-defined yet. anybody can say "oh that wasnt me because i like kittens and this serial killer clearly does not like kittens"
i suspect everyone who has martial skills or is otherwise athletic. even just being taller than Pinual is enough of an advantage; these kids are smart, they know about leverage.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i forgot to go back to my "breath" thing. since it was mentioned three times in the kill scene, i felt it was important. after looking through the bios, the only links i could find were Domo and Stormie. Domo's bio actually mentions wind a lot, and Stormie is... stormy. im assuming that to be a red herring for now until someone else can come up with something more conclusive.
i feel like theres something else i was going to post but i cant remember what it is at this time.
1: You're totally forgetting what i just said about mixing up clues. I cannot be the person who smooth-talks Pinual AND the sharpshooting/gun-oriented mafia member.
he could either be SK or mafia (yeah yeah, i know)
i didnt forget anything. did you read my post? i also didnt mention anything about sharpshooting or being gun-oriented. the big clues pointing to emilio (imo) are the stealth aspect, and the infantry training. the smooth-talking one is a bit of a reach, but ive seen real clues that were far more of a stretch.
at this point, nothing anybody can say can really exonerate themselves, because the clues are not well-defined yet. anybody can say "oh that wasnt me because i like kittens and this serial killer clearly does not like kittens"
i suspect everyone who has martial skills or is otherwise athletic. even just being taller than Pinual is enough of an advantage; these kids are smart, they know about leverage.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i forgot to go back to my "breath" thing. since it was mentioned three times in the kill scene, i felt it was important. after looking through the bios, the only links i could find were Domo and Stormie. Domo's bio actually mentions wind a lot, and Stormie is... stormy. im assuming that to be a red herring for now until someone else can come up with something more conclusive.
i feel like theres something else i was going to post but i cant remember what it is at this time.
MashPotato
18 years ago
Tenuous clue ahead! ;)
The stolen socks would probably be from one of the taller kids for them to be long enough... so perhaps the killer is someone on the shorter side, since longer socks would not point in their direction. The use of socks, as opposed to pants, shirts, or anything else that is readily available and stronger than socks (as I mentioned before, tying those together is hard), could have been used by the SK to plant fake clues.
The stolen socks would probably be from one of the taller kids for them to be long enough... so perhaps the killer is someone on the shorter side, since longer socks would not point in their direction. The use of socks, as opposed to pants, shirts, or anything else that is readily available and stronger than socks (as I mentioned before, tying those together is hard), could have been used by the SK to plant fake clues.
Den
18 years ago
Why would the SK plant clues, fake or otherwise?
Keera
18 years ago
This is from Michael Andrews (Pharren) bio. I was thinking to be able to sneak out of your room after curfew and commit a killing, one would have to be relatively new and not known. I would imagine you would have roommates etc.. if you had been there for some time. Also it is a mysterious transfer maybe they knew something over there at Armadillo and sent an assassin of sorts. Seems a bit fishy to me to be mysteriously ejected. Just a few thoughts.
His final failure as commander of Armadillo army resulted in his mysterious transfer.
This is from Michael Andrews (Pharren) bio. I was thinking to be able to sneak out of your room after curfew and commit a killing, one would have to be relatively new and not known. I would imagine you would have roommates etc.. if you had been there for some time. Also it is a mysterious transfer maybe they knew something over there at Armadillo and sent an assassin of sorts. Seems a bit fishy to me to be mysteriously ejected. Just a few thoughts.