Do you give it and how do you like it? C/C, pervs!

I have a difficult time giving c/c in forms of art I know nothing about, unless something is glaringly wrong, which is why I'm not vocal in the 3D section here. I will do what I can in free hand, but I doubt I will be helpful. In manip and pixel I can try and c/c the hell out of something, but again only if -I- see something wrong, which isn't often here.

That being said, unless I say different I want c/c 4 or higher depending on the progress of the piece. If it is still wip keep me in 4 if it is finish I want 5. I want 5 because I need to know what I did wrong. I save every thing in multiple layers, very few of my pieces have less than ten layers, and I do so that I can go back and change the mistakes.

I want the c/c to be a brutal as possible so that I can grow. Yeah it's great to hear. "Oh that is so pretty." or "Gosh I just don't see anything to c/c you did such a great job." With my pieces I know that's crap. I am not on the level of say Saraquael (sorry to keep usuing you as a reference point, but damn if you got the goods...) in coloring, nor am I as good at dolling as Oyye Vey from NS. I know I can improve. I know that every thing I make has flaws and those flaws need to be fixed.

Granted I may never go back and fix them, but I will know what not to do on the next one and it will be that much better.

One day when I grow up I will be good enough for some one to post "I just can't c/c such awesomeness" but until then, chew my stuff up and spit it out bloody.

I like CC on works in progress, myself. maybe not scathing, but if something is blatently in need of repair and im somehow missing it, someone should point it out. i'll usually post the stuff that im aware of, as in "yeah, i know the eyes arent even, they'll get fixed" or whatnot - but otherwise, please feel free to point it out.

however dont expect just because something is suggested that it will be changed. im in no way a perfect artist, im not a pro and i know i make a lot of mistakes, but im also very lazy so a lot of times i'll just file away the suggestion for future drawings and not change it on the current one it was posted regarding.

in closing, CC is good. one might even say it rocks.

rock on, CC... rock on.


(c/c my rock if you want, but im well aware its a pretty shoddy rock)

I like to hear that something is good as much as the next person, but I'd also love to know what's wrong so I can fix it. Now usually once I've posted something, I'm probably done with it. The c/c I ask for is to be used in any future projects, unless it's something that I think I really need to apply to the piece at hand. Now if it's a commission, of course I want to make sure it looks as good as I can manage, as well as please the client. In those cases by all means, c/c the piss outta it for me.

As far as my giving c/c, I've started trying to be better about it, here especially. One of my things, tho, is if it's not something I feel I could do better, I'm probably not going to even try to critique it. So you won't likely ever see me critisizing anything in freehand. I suppose I should clarify the do better remark. Basically, if I don't know how to explain what I see wrong and how to fix it, I'll more than likely let it go.

On a personal note, I don't think Roz or anyone here should ever feel like they have to hold someone's hand, or make sure that each and every one of us is all happy happy joy joy. We are, for the most part, all adults. Something I've always been taught is: If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. I usually try to stick to that, otherwise I'd likely end up hurting some feelings along the way. Besides, I'm already mother to one child, I refuse to mother anyone else.

I am a NS regular and supporter, for the record. I do visit tac.com, mainly for the harsh critism- (on stuff that I think is damn good, Ill post it here cause I know I will get every little nit picky detail of CC out of you guys).

That being said - I do not see a problem with tossing out something (hell anything) that is good on a piece of art before CC it. (or after, whatever). Me personally - I can take the hard stuff was well as anyone here. Do I like to know I am on the right track, tho? Hell Yea! Even with your cc5 you can say, good job. Its not fluffing anyone. Its encouraging them... Letting them know, hey your progressing, even if a - b- c- and d need work.

Personally, I like to be told what I'm doing right along with what I'm doing wrong. Does my hair look good? Then let me know, please, so I know to continue along in that track. Otherwise I'm going to assume it was ok, but not bad enough to merrit CC. I guess I'm more of a CC3ish person.

Likewise I have trouble giving out straight CC. I always try to find something nice to say about the piece, even on CC4+, because I assume everyone is like me and wanting to hear where they are on the right track.

So for those of you who like it quick and dirty just ignore my fluff I guess =P

On the admittedly rare occasions that I give cc, I tend to approach it from the perspective of looking at content first. This means that I do put personal preference in my cc. I'm one of those tree hugging "nothing is right or wrong" types to an extent and tend to be more interested in watching ideas and personal styles emerge.

This is what I am used to recieving, because all the technical advise in the world will not save a bad idea. Once the idea is in the right direction, then the technical advise can come hard and fast .

I suppose sometimes I fluff it up *shrugs* I just try to post my opinion on things. I'll be the first to admit that I don't always pay attention to the cc rankings, but respond much better to things like "rip this apart" or "what do you think of the typeface?" or "I was going for a dreamy feel, did it come across" type of statements.

I like being told what I need to improve on...with the cc I'd like to know a basic (not a full out tut) "what to do" to make it better. I'm still learning PS, I know I don't use it to it's fullest. Any hints as to how to achieve something will help me a lot. I am here to improve...and I have a lot since I started posting my stuff for cc on NS and here. Even if I don't make the improvements to the current piece, I definately use the advice on the next. With that said, I feel I get more constructive cc here then at NS, not saying that I don't get any at NS...Maeya and Quelin rock for cc.

I will only give cc on ss manips because that is where all of my "experience" is. I don't give a lot of cc because I'm not too good at it yet, but when I do see something, I speak up about it. I also have trouble following the cc ratings of anything lower then CC4 because (as it has been brought up to me before) my typing tone can seem a little harsh sometimes. I remember responding to cc3 on NS once, and when I went back a re-read it, it sounded kinda bitchy to me lol. I just don't post a lot in general, even my "fluffing" is random.

I generally don't give it. Reasons why are covered in my uber-long post way back when. lol. For the most part, I'm a technical aspect person... anatomy, perspective, line use etc. Pretty much just technical execution. I leave the concept and ideas up to the individual and don't really give any input on that.

For the most part, I'll only give c/c if asked for it. And if past experience has shown that you don't actually listen to c/c when asking for it, I'll more than likely give standard "that's cool" response.

I know a lot of people feel the need for encouragement. I'm not the person to go to for that. Like I tell my RL friends, if you REALLY need someone to boost you up a bit, your parents or someone nicer is definitely the way to go. More often than not, I'm working on some art-related pieces.. so I'm all cranky and pissy and will pretty much point out what I see wrong.

Again, only if asked for.

saraquael, you're cranky and pisssy regardless of what you're doing. its just your nature

I used to be a pretty easy going fun guy.



Then I met you.



:P

Kassy is e-hating, that's hot.

I agree, fluff+c/c+fluff is the way to go. I always push that but I think having different styles of c/c helps give that fresh new eye that we might not have ever seen. People tend to give the same type of c/c because after a while we develop our own style and we tend to push people to do it 'OUR' way. I know I do that a lot. So if we're all giving c/c, we're bound to help that person develop their own style.

I just hope everything said here doesn't fall on deaf ears. I think any input is good input and as always, it's much appreciated =D

I have a hard time adhering to a level scale on c/c. Sure, I have the little ribbon thing in my sig, but that's mostly just a reminder to people to just go ahead and c/c my stuff without asking. I believe less in c/c levels and more in just plain old good or bad c/c and good or bad c/c reception.

If you're giving the c/c, honestly think about what is the best way to c/c something without sounding like an ass. If your own remarks would upset you, it's likely they're going to bug someone else. If you think something needs to be fixed, *suggest how to fix it* or say so if you don't do how that would happen. This irritates me to no end...it's like someone is just saying something is bad just to have something to say.

On the other side, if you're getting c/c, don't get your panties in a wad if someone tells you something needs to be fixed. It's not an easy task to sit down and give someone good c/c, so appreciate the fact that someone took the time and did it for you. No one is perfect so don't expect anyone around here to claim as such. This is an art *community* not an art gallery. If you just want to post your art and get lots of oohs and ahs, I'm sure your webhost offers some free space to host your own site intended for the sole purpose of your worship. Around here (or at least, around me), expect to get a hand on trying to hone your skills.

/steps off soapbox and hunts for cookies

Unless someone's specifically asking for a hard 5 CC I always try to lead off with a compliment, point out first what's good then move to what's bad. (Softening the blow perhaps) Something around a 4 maybe... That's my personal style, I think, to acknowledge that yes I do like X and Y but then you could work on A - W. At least then people know you don't just hate the whole piece and ignore you as a hater. And, I think even if someone does ask for 5 it doesn't mean you can't add how much you like the piece / technique / etc. Just make sure when you do post to add some critique as well. So many times I have seen when someone asks for a cc5 people seem to just go and ohh-ahh over it but nothing else, I think it gets intimidating to try and hit that hard. 5 should be the most nit-picky and come down to even a review of the choice of style and presentation as well as all of the various techniques used.

But that's just me =)

I generally want C/C 5, which is to say, tell me what you honestly think of it and what you think would make it better. If I can sit in a classroom in college and have c/c face to face on paintings that took me days, even weeks to work on.. I don't think a little "You could really use some work on that hair and the hand is totally wrong." is going to make me cry any time soon.

I agree with Saraquael on the reason for not needing pats on the back, sure they are nice if they are honest but I'm a skeptic anyway and until I know you're not the kind to blow smoke and oooh at anyone and everyone's stuff then I'm going to assume you're just being nice.

A friend of mine was an excellent writer, the two of us wrote together during high school (556 typed pages of a story around somewhere *sigh*) and that's what she said she wanted to do. She asked me over and over would she make it as a writer. Finally after hearing this question for the hundredth time, I asked her if she wanted to know the truth. Of course she did. I said no. She asked why.

I said you either are a writer or you aren't and nothing I say will change that in any way, nothing some publisher says will change that either, if you want it bad enough then you are one. (Whether you're successful or not is another matter) If what I said was important to her self image then what a publisher said would be important and she'd quit the first rejection notice she got.

Incidentally she didn't even get that far, her husband hardly ever read her work so she decided it wasn't good enough and quit. I guess I was right.

No amount of "It sucks" is going to change my mind.

I generally give some positive feedback with the negative because its polite, I guess. I have no trouble C/Cing whatever and whomever.. if I see something wrong and you asked for C/C you're likely to get it. I might not be able to draw as well as the person I'm C/Cing but there is nothing wrong with my eyes.

Ok everyone's obviously annoyed with me for the thread in the 3d forum. I apologize for the annoyances but I do think everyone's got me wrong If I may defend my responses in that thread a little bit.

I don't want people to "ooh" and "aah" over my art, because honestly I think it's crap. I want to know what's wrong with my pieces. My problems in the past have been that I post a picture and ask for cc 3, for example, or even 4, and specifically say that I'm new with someting, and then I get a response: "X is wrong. Y needs to be fixed. Try a new way to do Z." If I have several blunt responses like that, with no encouragement whatsoever, then yes I'm going to think the piece is crap and there's nothing worthwhile about it. Sometimes I've tried to say "Thanks for the CC!" and smiley face smiley face and "How can I fix that? I'm new and I don't understand, thank you for your help!" and either I don't get a response to that question at all, or someone answers it in a vague way that doesn't explain how to fix the problem in the first place. That is one reason like I've felt that newbieness wasn't welcome.



That is what I like to receive also. Especially if in the original post I say I'm new to the medium. If anyone said they were new, I personally would give fuller CC, explaining myself as much as possible, instead of just saying "Needs more shadows." Know what I mean? I might say, "This needs more shadows, especially in the lower area, you can use the burn/dodge tool in PS to bring out those contrasts."

I have never ever said I didn't want constructive criticism on my pieces, because I want to know what's wrong. The problem becomes that if you ask for CC level 2-3, you get, yes, fluff. "That's great, this is pretty, I like that!" Everyone here agrees that that doesn't help anyone grow as an artist, and that's not what I want. But what I do need is the person giving the CC to read my post where I say I'm new at something, and to CC accordingly. To me, that means offering further depth into the CC such as explaining about a particular tool, for example. As another example, when I posted my paladin piece at NS, I said I already knew about the problem with the shield, which someone had pointed out here. Someone at NS said that I could try rendering each piece of my paladin seperately and then combining them in postwork. Well heck! I didn't know I could do that! Sweeet! That is something I can use! It's explaining how I can fix a problem in my piece.

So I don't care if I get "Fix this, fix that" criticism, but I do need encouragement that my piece isn't total crap. If that's "hand holding," ok! I guess I need "hand holding" !! Not a big deal! And folks here don't want to offer that, that's fine! NS offers it, and I need it, so I'll post at NS. No worries, it's all good man!

So, if I ask for CC 2-3, I get fluff and nothing constructive, both here and at NS. If I ask for CC 4, I'm going to get all hard-hitting no-fluff no-extra help CC. I can't really find a comfortable middle, but at least at NS I get, yes, fluff, but I also get CC. It's not as in-depth as it would be here, but it's also not put forth bluntly and usually contains ways to fix the problems as well as support for learning a new medium.

Once, I posted a piece for CC; the only CC one person gave was "This needs XYZ." When I responded that I didn't know what that meant, the person never responded back. To me, that feels like they didn't want to help me learn, they weren't interested in helping me fix the piece. They just saw a picture, didn't like something, posted that they didn't like it, and never bothered to explain why or how to fix it. I don't like that. Even after I specifically asked them what their CC meant, they didn't bother to help. That's actually happened more than once.

And I'm not trying to be a bitch here, but that's one feeling I'm getting when I post for CC, and that's one reason I was going back to NS. And before anyone starts saying "Fine, go to NS, go!" .... I've already said I'll post for CC there and it doesn't bother me that my art isn't at the level that I can get CC here. It's fine, I don't mind. I don't have a thick enough skin to post here, s'ok with me to go back to NS. On the other thread I had only said I was discouraged, then I sent a pm to someone and said I was going to start posting for CC at NS again, no worries, no big deal, then suddenly I was being called out in my thread and felt I had to defend my decision. Then after I said "No worries, I'll just post at NS, it's fine, I just need fluff I guess, no worries," people continued to say "Fine, go!" Um, ok, I'm going? LOL

I do appreciate the help that those here have given me, but I'm just not at the level where I can post something and take a lot of blunt criticism with no encouragement. And I apologize for calling constructive criticism "negative," I guess I personally see it as negative because it means my piece isn't as good as I thought it was, it's not "negative" per se. That's my bad for calling it that.

Temprah posted this while I was writing my long-ass thing. This, that she said, above, is all I wanted when I was getting frustrated with the CC I was getting. That's it, right there. It's not a bad thing to compliment something you like about a piece, before going into the CC. Some people don't like to do that, and that's fine. I just want to go somewhere where I can get that there - acknowledgement that there *is* something worthwhile about the piece, and then go into the CC. That's what I post also when I post CC. It's just a difference of personality, I think.

Hard, fast and up against the wall! Slap me down and make me cry, I like it. What? I'm talking about C/c :P Seriously, though, c/c is of the good and we like getting it. Rip the hell out of anything I do, there is no better incentive to get better than having your nose rubbed in your mistakes. However, I might just be odd and kinda masochistic. Still, if you have something to say, I wanna hear it. Sure, every so often I might get pissy about something, but generally I bounce back pretty quick and get over it, then if you were right all along, I'll fix whatever you pointed out. I might bitch while doing it, but only cause I dislike being wrong.

Truthfully, I don't get the varying levels of c/c thing you guys have. I'm not one of the art forum type of girls, hell, I do not even think of myself as any type of artist. Just every now and then I mess about in arty type programs and do stuff. So yeah, considering I don't practice art often enough to actually get good at it, I do appreciate getting kicked in the direction of betterness. I guess I like level 5 c/c then? *shrugs* Dude, if you got something to give, just give it, do not hand out half assed comments in the interest of sparing my feelings. They are not that sensitive, I can guarantee they've survived worse things than your opinion.

Fluff makes my teeth itch!

That said, I don't think my c/c is all that harsh the times I give it. No one has ever accused me of being nice, but my nitpicking skills seem to end at writing and ripping apart character flaws. Possibly the side effect of a misspent youth reading fanfic. I couldn’t just be normal and do drugs, could I? No, I had to go for the slash fiction *sigh*

I had a point... but I seem to have forgotten what it was along the way... uhm, rum ball, anyone?

You are still -THE- Bio Nazi.. I was but the rookie. Still I think we made at least several people redo bios 5 times... and a few that were refused to be looked at until they found a spellchecker. Remember the one that had the odd habit of capitalizing random words?

My evil C/C's extend to writing as well. I guess I'm just evil.

You are EVODD!!

Please spell check your bio. Please give credit for your bases. I will be ever so happy if you stop using OOC information or not stop whining when you are caught doing something you know perfectly well is against the rules. And while you are at it, could you please not copy character ideas and make the other players send me long sulky notes? Please? *eye twitch*

Ignorant masses: *gives Cali the finger and continues on their merry way*

...

*censores 100 word drabble made out of nothing but cussing and starts paper cutting people to death* Haha, now you'll listen to me you snivelling monkeys!!!!

*looks around* Er... c/c is teh donkey poo! Learn it. Give it. Love it. ^.^

No, I'm not on medication...

I have not yet read said thread. This one was higher up on the forum. Stop assuming this thread is directed at you. The subject is not "Let's Rip on Hijinks".



There's no rule saying you can only post on TAC or NS. This is not an us-against-them type of board. Lots of TAC members still post on NS and vice versa - I, for one, good give a shit where anyone wants to post. It's not my business and everyone is entitled to make up their own minds. What I do have a problem with is that people have to make a statement about posting at another board like they're taking their toys to play in a better sandbox. I don't care if you post on another board, but don't make a big stink about it here.



Maybe the person didn't go back to read the thread? Again, a case of taking things personally. Perhaps it might be a good idea to look at how your question was asked. It's possible you may have done the offending as well.



Again, back to the announcements about posting on other boards. It's unnecessary and, frankly, immature. Have you thought about the fact that maybe you offended some people by essentially telling them the place they call home is not good enough? Perhaps that's why you got the response you did. People do the same thing on NS - the posts about leaving, I mean. The response is much the same. If you have to make a catty post about leaving, I don't many are going to beg you to stay.



Are you talking about skill levels? Really, I know I'm not fantastic, but that doesn't mean I can't take honest crits. If it's an insecurity issue, well, loved ones are always kindest and might help boost your confidence, but I wouldn't expect much from words on the intraweb.