Round 1 - OOC

Discuss.

Den 16 years ago
A ship coming at him from all sides - N/S/E/W = 4 mafia? or with the godfather, 5?
CaptainBinky 16 years ago
It rather sounds to me as if there were two ships coming from the first direction spotted, one hanging back - so I think it's more like as you say 4 ships plus the Godfather hanging back, so 5.
Verileah 16 years ago
Four ships that have some way of propelling themselves with no wind, one that doesn't? Or is that reaching?
Den 16 years ago
What they had no oars on pirate ships?

post
There was a ship moving swiftly towards them from each direction.
FyreGarnett 16 years ago
depends on the size of the ship. the larger ones did not have oars - if ther was no wind, you went with the current until a wind could be caught
Verileah 16 years ago
I thought the larger ones were the only ones who had the room for oars and oarsmen. I think more research is needed. When I get home (which will be pretty late tonight) I'll make a list of the ships and their various qualities - if we think this is a thing, that is.
CaptainBinky 16 years ago
"The galleon had no oars at all, as the hybrid galleasses had, and it gained more in sail power than it lost by dropping oars."
source

"frigate , originally a long, narrow nautical vessel used on the Mediterranean, propelled by either oars or sail or both."
source

"Caravels reflected several major improvements in ship design, specifically, a change from single-masted square rigging to multiple lateen sails (large triangular sails that improved maneuverability into the wind), the use of pre-constructed framing upon which flush, end-joined ('carvel') planking was nailed, and the use of a stern-mounted rudder as opposed to traditional side-mounted steering oars"
source

Kobuksons have oars

"They were fast even without the wind because of a few pair of oars. That's why a sloop made a perfect fit for any quick pirates' action."
source

"The corsairs often sailed in convoys under the command of al-rais. A rais captained each galley in the convoy. Janissaries, men-at-arms, boarded enemy ships while local sailors worked the ship and slaves manned the oars."
source

"the brigantine was a small ship carrying both oars and sails."
source

"A few more words were spoken
and then they both shook hands
The sailors gently manned their oars
and quickly rowed from land
And Willie waved his handkerchief
till they were far from shore
Saying farewell my lovely Susie from a British Man O' War."
source (folk song)
Although, Wikipedia says "propelled primarily by sails", which only means it might have oars.

...I've missed a few here, I'll edit this when I can find some other refs. For example, I can't find anything which confirms the existence or otherwise of oars on a schooner.
FyreGarnett 16 years ago
well, i checked out the east indiaman that I choose and schooners - neither had oaring capabilities. they were designed for hauling cargo and many were armed. the space needed to allow for oaring ould have been cost prohibitive, whereas waiting an hour or 6 for the wind to pick back up made more sense. the draft alone on the east indiaman would have made oarring impossible. generally speaking, one can sail more or less in the direction wanted (tacking is a wonderful thing!) as long as there is wind and you aren't attempting to sail into it. sailing vessels designed for the ocean were usually towed into port by a small, oarred boat, similiar ro how togboats do that today.

now, as to wether or not this is a legitimate point - only the mods know - and, as usual, I doubt they'll tell us!!!
FyreGarnett 16 years ago
hit the wrong key.

near as I can tell, schooners did not have oars, neither did the east indiaman.
Verileah 16 years ago
Thanks for doing homework, guys . Now to cross reference stuff...I'm such a slacker, haven't made a spreadsheet yet :X
FyreGarnett 16 years ago
course, the whole oars thing may not matter in the slightest!!!

and people wonder why i like this game - the sheer frustration of trying to figure what/if/why something might/maybe/doesn't matter!!!
Verileah 16 years ago
*nods* yeah, it could have been a magical wind or something, who knows. Still, it's an avenue to explore.
CaptainBinky 16 years ago
It's also probably worth noting that it is possible to sail a boat into the wind.

edit: ignore me :P forgot that this whole thing came about because there's no wind in the kill description!
Guest 16 years ago
The no wind could be misleading. It is no uncommon to see the wind move across the water, so just because there was no wind, or not enough wind for one boat, does not mean the other boats did not have both size and wind advantage.

With no one at the helm The Catfish would have picked a natural drift with both wind and current, perhaps giving an illusion of no wind, but the non moving ship suggests that perhaps it was a larger ship and needed more wind to move, and could not benefit from oars.

The complete destruction of The Catfish also hints at a rather large ship with heavy guns.
Four Winds 16 years ago
CaptainBinky;94152
It's also probably worth noting that it is possible to sail a boat into the wind.

edit: ignore me :P forgot that this whole thing came about because there's no wind in the kill description!


Methinks the parrot doth thinketh to much...

Verileah;94136
Four ships that have some way of propelling themselves with no wind, one that doesn't? Or is that reaching?


If anyone has watched the racing of the America's Cup, it is entirely feasible for one sailing yaught to be stuck in light or no/wind conditions while the other yaught competing nearby has the advantage of wind and is moving fairly steadily. Tacking and jibing against the wind or into it is also a skill learned by sailors both past and present.

The problem we have is that right from the start, there was no stipulation of what time period we're looking at - 1500's? 1700's? A lot changed in sailing technology and ship design during this period.

Larger vessels like Frigates, Galleons and Battleships didn't need oarsman as such on their vessels, they simply put down a few rowboats with crew to row the ship out of the doldrums or adverse wind conditions they found themselves in.

Smaller vessels were more than capable of navigating in shallower waters, and putting down oars, if the need arose, or by similarly displacing a rowboat and crew into the sea.

The fact that poor Captain Bart Westcott's crew were apparently killed off (or did a mass lemming migration into the ocean) could indicate that the waiting ship(s) had been in the vicinity all night. Barring Supernatural Forces (such as undead pirates or bare-chested lusty sirens), it seems probable that a highly competent boarding party was sent aboard the Catfish and the crew slaughtered in quiet - i.e no gunfire and no-one being alerted to what was going on.

Rae;94123

The Captain gave one last look towards the ships before turning a full circle, looking for a way to escape. There was a ship moving swiftly towards them from each direction.

Sounds like a classic setup for a broadside from port and starboard.

Rae;94123

His fate came quickly. The destruction of his complete. The Captain lay bleeding on a piece of flotsam. It would not be long before Captain Bart Westcott joined his loyal crew.

Captain's lying on a piece of flotsam? Any two fighting ships (with the exception of Cpt. John 'Squirrel Lips' Jessop's rowing boat) firing unopposed against a helpless vessel would reduce it to flotsam and jetsam. We're given no clue as to how long it took to destroy the Catfish.

We have Galleons, Frigates, Large Frigates, Man-o-War's, Brigatines, East Indiaman class ships, a First Rate Ship of the Line (which is a Battleship!) and raiding type vessels in these pirate infested waters.

Any combination of them could take out Captain Westcott's vessel.

And don' t forget that smaller vessels like a Slloop-of-War, or a Schooner could take out a helpless vessel, or even board the ship, set the powder kegs and blow the the poor Catfish to Kingdom Come with poor Captain Westlcott still aboard.
Blackrabbit 16 years ago
While I think it's significant that there are four ships possibly capable of moving forward without oars, I think it more likely that this is a clue to the number of Mafia in the game, which is more likely to be 4 plus a GF hanging back. That's my hunch anyhow. Most of the ships in our list of characters are capable of some sort of self-porpelling motion, so I don't think that clue is specific enough yet to be telling. Maybe later, combined with further clues.

Anyone do any digging into the reference to the Three Little Pigs? (Title of the hit: Who is Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf). I read through bios and read up on my pig-lit, but I couldn't really see the relevance. Is it just me? It just struck me as an odd title for a Mafia hit in a pirate-themed game.

*shrug* I must be blind as a bat though, because if it meant anything it went right over my head.
FyreGarnett 16 years ago
someone's bio referred to pigs... have to dig out the notes to figure out whose, though it was one of the more... creative... ons floating around... something about a father who mistook him for a pig and sold him to a butcher?

(I refused to read anyone's bio untilthe game actually stqrted - and laughed my ass off over some of them, lemme tell you!!)
MEC 16 years ago
FyreGarnett;94174
someone's bio referred to pigs... have to dig out the notes to figure out whose, though it was one of the more... creative... ons floating around... something about a father who mistook him for a pig and sold him to a butcher?

(I refused to read anyone's bio untilthe game actually stqrted - and laughed my ass off over some of them, lemme tell you!!)



Squirrel Lips
lemmy101 16 years ago
Yay! I'm officially boned. That thread title doesn't even seem related to to the actual post and can't find any other interpretations... not sure there's even any point in trying to deflect that one other than saying it's Chuck E. Cheese. aka a coincidence.



Hopefully the fact it's blatant pointing at me in the thread title of the first mafia kill lends credence to the fact that the mods probably wouldn't be that mean?

I'll try work up some other possible meanings to it but doubt I could possibly come up with anything like that.
MEC 16 years ago
You seem a little over-defensive.

But I'm willing to consider it a misunderstanding of me post, I was just answering the question, not agreeing with it.

As it stands I don't really see much in this first post right now, until something clicks I don't think I'll be too talkative.