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Round 3 - OOC

Discuss

Four Winds 18 years ago
astralfire;94656
Game Note: The sheriff is the only one that can identify the Mafia. The Doctor just saves people.

Fact: Squirrel lips was on AN island.....it can not be said he was on the same island Captain Mon Claire was killed on. Of course it does not say he wasn't, but no facts point to him being on the same island.


The good Captain is correct. We cannot assume that Captain Jessop ended up on the same Island as the recently deceased Captain Mon Claire. The odds of Captain Mon Claire being sent to find clues on the same Island that Captain Jessop just happened to wash up on aren't likely.

Captain Jessop hasn't confirmed whether or not he did accept Captain Rich's offer of assistance, but don't rule that out just because there's no indication of that.

lemmy101;94652
Hey, if the evidence points at me being SK, fair enough. I'm not aware of a great deal of evidence being thrust in my direction, but I'll say this anyway:

I'm SK. I've managed to convince the doc to save me. Good job on my part! By Round 2 I, as the serial killer, have convinced the doc to save my life!

That means 1) I've gained the trust of the doc only one round from the start, got his role revealed to me, AND got him to protect me, not even knowing that the person I'm talking could be mafia feeding me a line... and then I also had the balls to do all this publicly to try and get someone lynched that, all things considered, I've got no reason to kill a *specific* person on any side. Seems a lot more bother than just silently killing people left and right.

So anyway, you're free to consider me as SK, but please consider it wisely as since I'm already as good as dead, I don't want what time I've got to be wasted on internal struggle to find the SK that ends up lynching townies... I know no one can ever be trusted 100%, but please don't waste this 95.83% chance I'm not the SK and am trying to help the townies get a huge advantage to win..


While I'm loathe to extend an olive branch to Captain Jessop after all the effort he has put into having me lynched, let's not be so quick to condemn him. While it is possible that the Serial Killer could fool the Doctor and thus be saved from a Mafia Hit, that's a pretty wild assumption and a very devious turn of play.

I'm feeling under the weather at the moment, but am writing up observations based on the Serial Killer hit now.
Den 18 years ago
astralfire;94656
Game Note: The sheriff is the only one that can identify the Mafia. The Doctor just saves people.


OH? Again I stand corrected. I've played the sheriff before and for some reason thought the doctor had the same opportunity. Again I've learned something new. However, if the doctor can't ask about Jessop being mafia, then how does he know he hasn't saved a mafia, or the sk? It's all faith?

Bunny? Where are you? I have questions!! LOL
CaptainBinky 18 years ago
Hang on... wait....

Haven't we already determined that the mafia can't do fake hits?
So the doctor has definitely saved a townie regardless of whether he's sheriff or otherwise...?
Guest 18 years ago
SK Notes:
I find it interesting that Mon Claire voted for Rosa in his first vote and he got taken down. Was she not an early contender for the SK?

Lets take a look and see what we know from her Bio:
-She worked at a cheap brothel in Tortuga since her early teens.
-She was gifted with a beautiful voice and exceptional skills with the guitar, but gave that up to have gold and wealth.
-She left Tortuga, but is implicated in a massacre at the brothel she had worked at. (of course it does not say who was killed? The patrons, the workers, the owners, or a combination?)
-She is well known as the ruthless female captain of The Golden Sunset.
-She has a slashed throat and tremendous sharpened hook in place of a her right hand.
-Her voice is unable to rise above the level of a whisper.
-Her motto is "show no mercy"
-In her desire for riches, more than just her music had been taken from her.

-- Was her wispering voice the reason for the near but close sound of the voice Bart heard?
-- Was she taunting him because they knew each other from some time before? They both knew how to play musical instruments. Had she known Bart was not really that mean?
-- Was her reputation the reason he knew he was about to die?
-- Was the weighty "splush" in the first hit her tremendous sharpened hook hand hitting the water?

-- Was Angela Tasman's shock because she saw a well known and ruthless pirate about to smash her in the face?
-- Was she able to take Angela Tasman out of a bar full of pirates with out anyone causing a fuss, because of Rosa reputation?
-- Were the "Thunks" on the barrel her putting extra holes in it with her tremendous sharpened hook hand?
-- Angela was a competitor in the race and had a reputation of using men and tossing them aside. Did Rosa's consider Angela a competitor as a woman also?

-- Was Mon Claire killed to hush him up? He had fingered Rosa as the SK.
-- Was he run through not with a sword or dagger, but that hooked hand?
-- Was her hesitation in killing him because he was no real threat to actually solve the clues and finish the race, or was it his lack of "manliness"?
-- Was the concern of children and mothers rooted in her early life in the brothel?

Do not take my statements as gospel, because all I have is speculation. There are however, a lot of stings that tie the SK hits to Rosa.

Rosa is safe for now, as I have other concerns that I feel are more important. Which means there is time to consider my questions and statements, and do some analytical work on your own. If there is another that can be tied the the SK in a better fashion I am willing to hear arguments and reconsider. After all if we become sheep and only follow the leader, we will have no reason to complain when we are lead to slaughter.
CaptainBinky 18 years ago
I like all of that except the weighty splush being a hooked hand, and 'running through is so more a swordy thing than a hooky thing.
Four Winds 18 years ago
CaptainBinky;94660
Hang on... wait....

Haven't we already determined that the mafia can't do fake hits?
So the doctor has definitely saved a townie regardless of whether he's sheriff or otherwise...?


That's right. The Mafia can't fake hits.

But who's to say that the Doctor wasn't fooled into saving a Serial Killer who claimed he was the Sherrif or a Townie?

Unlikely, but lemmy101 raised that exact same scenario earlier.
CaptainBinky 18 years ago
Hmmm I suppose you're right. I guess I was just hoping that the scenario was getting simpler :D

Having said that wasn't most the evidence against Squirrel Lips to do with Big Bad Wolf and therefore mafia?
Guest 18 years ago
CaptainBinky;94660
Hang on... wait....

Haven't we already determined that the mafia can't do fake hits?
So the doctor has definitely saved a townie regardless of whether he's sheriff or otherwise...?


Nope wrong again.

The Mafia can hit one of their own, but they can not fake the hit.

So the fact is the mafia did order the hit on Squirrel Lips and the Doctor did save him.

What you don't know is if Squirrel Lips, is Mafia or not. If he is then the the following would also have to be true:
-- The mafia would need to figured out who the doctor is.
-- The mafia would need to risk a member to convince the Doc to save them.
-- The mafia would have to put a hit on one of their own members and hope they get saved.
The payoff is that member now becomes trusted, and can be used at some other point in the game. However, if they fail they end up doing in one of there members needless this early in the game.

While all this is possible, the odds start getting higher with each layer you add.
Things that could go wrong:
- The mafia only think they found the Doc.
- The doctor changes who they are saving based on other information
- The real sheriff wonders how Squirrel Lips is so positive and fingers him as mafia in a future round.
CaptainBinky 18 years ago
Hang on, so I'm clear - you're saying that the mafia can target one of their own and if that person happens to be protected by the doc then it would look to us exactly like the scenario we've got?

It seems plausible but one hell of a gambit.
Guest 18 years ago
CaptainBinky;94668
Hang on, so I'm clear - you're saying that the mafia can target one of their own and if that person happens to be protected by the doc then it would look to us exactly like the scenario we've got?

It seems plausible but one hell of a gambit.


Yes, you have it right.
Yes it is one hell of a gambit, this early in the game.
lemmy101 18 years ago
CaptainBinky;94668
Hang on, so I'm clear - you're saying that the mafia can target one of their own and if that person happens to be protected by the doc then it would look to us exactly like the scenario we've got?

It seems plausible but one hell of a gambit.


And to be done in Round 3! At least, I'll be immensely flattered if you do accuse me of that! :D
Verileah 18 years ago
*waxes historical*

In all my time of modding/playing/watching Mafia games, I've seen the fake out strategy you've described work -once-. MEC probably knows what I'm talking about - the infamous JohnKeats maneuver. Musta been back in '01...good times, good times. Many have tried, most have failed.
Four Winds 18 years ago

Serial Killer Hit 3: Blow The Man Down Part II




A Sea Faring Killer in A Small Vessel


In SK Hit 1: That would explain being able to get very close to Captain Bartholomew Westcott as he lay dying(?) on the wreckage of his sunken ship, The Catfish in the first Serial Killer Hit

In SK Hit 2: on Captain Angela Tasman of the good ship Emerald Princess the Scenario Title itself makes an oblique reference to the Beach Boy’s song “Sloop. John B” - I feel so broke up, I want to go home.

In SK Hit 3: It’s likely to assume that Tube Rider, was shadowed by a smaller vessel to the island where Captain Mon Claire was intent on seeking clues. A smaller vessel has a low profile, is manoeuvrable and quick and would be able to shadow the Tube Rider from a distance without drawing attention from the Tube Rider.

A small vessel would also be capable of drawing in close to shore in shallow waters on the other side of the island.

I can’t see Captain Jessop in his Rowing Boat (if it’s still around) keeping track with a Brigantine, no matter how many Six Million Doubloon enhancements have been invested in him.

The small/medium vessels that stand out because of the previous reference in SK Hit 2 are the Sloops:

Captain Santiago Ortiz: Sloop
Captain Nova Piestewa: Sloop
Captain Jack Blackwater: Sloop

I have deliberately excluded Captain William Cleene’s Sloop of War, because the armament and design of a Sloop of War came at a compromise - ship speed and profile. Reduced speed and a more pronounced profile.

The only other small/medium vessel that has a low profile vessel is the rather unique Kobukson commanded by the Dread Captain Rabbit.

While there is debate on the exact capabilities of the Kobukson, (known as the Turtle Boat because of the alleged iron cladding it was said to have), including it’s exact speed, size and maneuverability, the ship itself has a unique profile unlike that of European sailing ships which would lend itself to being able to shadow the Tube Rider.

Granted, we may not know how efficient the crew of the Tube Rider were, so the other small/medium ships cannot be ruled out. These include:

Captain Darsa: Barbary Corsair
Captain Gentleman Jack Morgan: Brigantine
Captain Cesare (Cuirasse) Bontempe: Caravel
Captain Mystique: Single Masted Schooner
Captain Caitri Ambrai-Greystone: Schooner
Captain Bloody Rich: Schooner

SK Hit 2 and SK Hit 3 do seem to hint at the Serial Killer’s disdain (or contempt) for the particular sea going vessels commanded by Captain Angela Tasman and Captain Mon Claire, a Dutch Schoener and a French Brigantine respectively.

The Tube Rider may have received scorn because of its own flamboyant appearance. What the two have in common is that the Serial Killer appears to draw some satisfaction from the fact that both the Emerald Princess and the Tube Rider are now without Captains. Cut off the head, so to speak.

Is this possible size envy? Hard to say although each of the three Captain-less vessels are significantly larger than a Sloop.

No definitive clues although the destruction of Captain Westcott’s East Indiaman, The Catfish in SK Hit 1 and the predicament the dying Captain finds himself in is a source of amusement to the Serial Killer.

A Peculiar Attitude


The Serial Killer has a rather vicious sense of irony and sarcasm when it comes to either mocking the dispatched Captain’s or disposing of them.

In SK Hit 1 Captain “Mean Bart” Westcott is mocked for being not so mean, and is taunted by being called a kitten and food for the fishes - ironic for one who commanded The Catfish.

In SK Hit 2 Captain Angela Tasman is mocked by being called “Darling” (referenced to her earlier altercation in the bar) and the Serial Killer remarks callously that she will be sent home to “daddy.”

In SK Hit 3 Captain Mon Claire’s words literally come back to bite him, when the Serial Killer runs him through. The Serial Killer in his or her thinking bases the decision to take out Captain Mon Claire on his rather flamboyant and offensive dress sense, not to mention the pain all those seamstresses and cows had to go through to outfit him.

Killing In The Name Of...


The Serial Killer is far more dangerous and unpredictable than the Mafia, because the Serial Killer is a rogue card in play, and has the potential to turn both all players against each other with each Serial Kill that is made. The movements of the Serial Killer tend to be deliberate, calculated and precise.

In SK Hit 1: The Serial Killer doesn’t really have to do much to dispose of Captain Westcott. It’s not clear whether the dying Captain was pushed off the piece of wreckage he was floating on, or as suggested by others, the Serial Killer decided to speed up the killing process by dumping bait (flesh and/or blood) into the ocean to attract the natural predators to the scene of The Catfish’s destruction.

In SK Hit 2: we are given a slightly clearer picture. The Serial Killer has no problem in walking into a tavern (granted it was full of pirates), and punching out Captain Tasman. This is a rather blatant act of violence, yet nobody does anything to stop the Serial Killer from striking Captain Tasman or taking her away to be disposed of.

The registration of shock upon Captain Tasman’s face could mean that she recognized her assailant, or that her assailant was intimidating and/or scarred. Enough that no-one in the tavern lifted a finger or spoke a word against the Serial Killer who waltzed out with his prize.

Captain Tasman is also disposed of in a manner that would be familiar to those who have worked, or lived around the shipping towns and ports. We can only assume that Captain Tasman would either drown in the sunken barrel, or if it was airtight due to the content of the merchant barrels being carried out to the waiting ships, then she suffocated beneath the waves in the weighted down barrel.

SK Hit 3: is deliciously ironic and vicious. Captain Mon Claire comments about running through his crew, and the Serial Killer decides that what goes around, comes around. Captain Mon Claire is run through. Nothing fancy, just a good old fashioned killing.

There are plenty of Pirate Captain’s who could have knocked out Captain Tasman, and used a sword (or other piercing weapon) to skewer Captain Mon Claire.

The only two who could be excused from doing either by lack of physical ability would be Captain Ginger Ears and Dominic the Parrot.

We’re looking for someone who is intimidating and/or scarred, and has no compulsion about punching out a woman in a crowded tavern or skewering Captain Mon Claire.

This person would also have to be familiar with merchant ships and how they’re supplied, and can quietly remain hidden from view in the jungle while observing Captain Mon Claire and his crew.

Captain Caine has an “imposing build” but there’s no mention of any stealth type abilities, experience with merchant vessels (other than escorting them and looting them), and it would seem out of character for a former Royal Naval Officer to blatantly punch a woman in the face.

Captain Mystique is certainly capable of stealth, and her patron was Panther Pete. She can certainly handle a man, but the only reference to use of a weapon is a knife.

Captain Greystone isn’t a subtle Captain, but she has been known to disguise herself as a man and did grow up around a fishing village (although that doesn’t necessarily include a port that had merchant trade).

She won’t back away from a fight, suggesting that the good Captain can fight, and she’s incredibly well armed. Captain Greystone “always has her cutlass, flintlocks, several daggers hidden upon her and boarding ax on her.” Captain Greystone also “has a wicked Irish temper and sharp tongue to match it. She is quick to end any argument with a quick tongue lashing or by slitting a throat.”

Captain Dread Rabbit is “feared and respected in her own right” but there’s no mention of her physical or stealth prowess.

Captain Santiago Ortiz is no stranger to the ways of stealth (thieving ways) and the name of his Caravel, the Huracán or Hurricane fits in with the title of SK Hit 3 - “Blow the Man Down.” While we don’t know the Captain’s physical prowess (aside from his ability to take a beating), the flag of the Huracán does mention “two crossing spears on a black background” - A spear could easily have been used to run Captain Mon Claire through, but the association is tenuous.

Colonel James O'Connor is a competent Naval Captain, but he “typically doesn't usually involve himself in fighting other pirates, unless they get in his way.”

Captain Darsa is familiar with portside towns and is “a respected and somewhat feared Captain; her casual disregard for those not of her crew is legendary.” Her appearance is also marred by a “single visible scar lines her face from her left earlobe to her chin; the surgeon who stitched it did an amazing job and she is proud of the thin line proclaiming that she is a fighter, and is more than willing to tell the tale of what she did to the sailor who gave her that mark.”

Captain Darsa also “keeps herself as fit as she could, as she knows her physical strength and agility will help keep her alive and a contender among so many men.”

The only weapon noted is her 18th Birthday present, “a silver-hilted stiletto.”

Captain Darsa also “dresses well normally” and “she loves fine fabrics and colors.”

Could Captain Mon Claire have been an affront to Captain Darsa's fashion sense and Captain Tasman have been seen as a contender for the affections of men?

She also likes to let her hair “down now and again, to flow in the wind like her own banner.” Blow the Man Down as a reference?

Captain Jessop is physically imposing. He’s a patchwork of flesh and parts grafted onto him by a Parisian surgeon.

His ribcage had been replaced with an old oak rum barrel, his left arm was his own flesh and bone that had been grafted onto the barrel using some kind of gluey stuff, while the right was replaced entirely with a wooden socket allowing for all manner of useful attachments; such as a cutlass, musket, a cast iron pillaging rod and a harlot tickler.

The right arm of Captain Jessop could easily be used to knock out Captain Tasman and ironically stuff her in a barrel; and to run Captain Mon Claire through with a iron pillaging rod.

However, there’s the nagging question of how exactly Captain Jessop would have got to the island to kill Captain Mon Claire in the first place,

Captain Cleene might take offense to Captain Mon Claire’s dress sense, but it’s stated that Captain Cleene prefers to avoid fights.

Captain Lilith has been “assaulted by pirates, captured, and then ransomed several years later had taken it's toll on her worldly views as well as her body and mind.

From that point on, a fire burned inside a soulless mass, and an indomitable will was driven to extremes to reforge a broken self into a weapon to capable of saiting it's need for vengence on the kindred of those that had robbed her of her childhood and innocence.

More agile and as equally trained in blade then any man, superbly trained with the bullwhip, and possessing a wit and insight few possessed on the seas she slowly built a following.”

Not a Captain you would want to tangle with, and certainly capable of dispatching anyone who crossed her way. However getting to the Island undetected in a First Class Ship of the Line would be difficult at best.

Captain Rosa might have a fearsome appearance and reputation as the “ruthless female captain of The Golden Sunset - the Captain with a slashed throat and tremendous sharpened hook in place of her right hand”; but it would be difficult to sail a Man-O-War to the island where Captain Mon Claire was dispatched without being detected. And running someone through with a hooked hand? Not likely, this is a female Pirate Captain we’re talking about, not Candyman.

Captain Piestewa knows the ways of stealth - a former smuggler and a thief. This could also include knowledge of transportation of merchant barrels, the type used to dispose of Captain Tasman. Captain Piestewa also has a reputation and “when her temper flares, she’s a force to be reckoned with.”

It’s possible that the antics of Captain Tasman annoyed Captain Piestewa and she decided to make an example of the Dutch Captain, and the somewhat amusing but warped reasoning for disposing of Captain Mon Claire could tie in with Captain Piestewa’s reputation as being “a little bit of a lunatic.”

Captain Devilish Mary Williamson is “something of a force to be reckoned with”, is no stranger to disguise and can fight as well as any boy (or sailor).

Captain Gentleman Jack Morgan is “a well-built and strong man, yet not exceptionally so. He is a competent swordsman, but his true strength in battle comes from his savagery and raw animal cunning.” We know that he is “victims and enemies, he is one of the most brutal and ruthless men on the Spanish Main.”

“Civilians and merchants fear him” and Captain Jack Morgan has been left “with one eye, no nose, and four lips. Even though a full beard would do much to hide this wound, the Gentleman is one of very few clean-shaven pirates.”

“Despite his terrifying visage, the Gentleman's dress is more suited to a European noble than a pirate baron and he speaks English, Dutch, and Spanish elegantly and articulately.”

Gentleman Jack Morgan might have taken offense to Captain Mon Claire, but it would seem out of character for the self-confessed gentleman to punch Captain Tasman in the face.

Captain Jack Blackwater has a fearsome reputation, based on rumors and he is a “massive man, well over 6 ft and seemingly as broad shouldered and brawney as he is tall. Jet black hair, wild and unkempt, adding to his savage appearance, shining black eyes peering from his bearded and olive skinned face, a long white scar starting over ihs right eye and running across his crooked nose to his left cheek a reminder of one of the many close calls he has faced.”

Captain Blackwater’s Sloop, the Bloody Rose is also claimed to be “fast, silent, and light,” the perfect vessel for shadowing another ship such as the Tube Rider.

Other than Captain Bloody Rich growing up in a fishing village that may or may not have had a port, there’s no indication that he is the Serial Killer from the Scenario’s played out in SK Hits 1-3.


Really not feeling well tonight due to illness. Will be around to vote though.
MEC 18 years ago
shit, sorry I forgot to vote, I totally spaced out on that one. Not like it would have mattered though.