Angels & Demons Mafia / ROUND 4 OOC / pharren 15 years ago

ROUND 4 OOC

(insert paranoia here)

Round 3 Kills

Mafia - Kal Mando
Lynch - nadiya

Kilandra 15 years ago
Vulash;98414
Good - so for the record - you send me weird crazy PMs I'm posting them here.

I'm not sure who to hang. I think the debate is between Vudu, Boris and Myraan. The finger tattoo clues seem to be the absolute strongest to me in the last kill, and the fact Myraan is hellbent on hanging a man this time. Vudu seems a bit desperate, and Boris is gone....again - which I find suspicious as well. Where there many good clues for boris or vudu this round?


My husband has been following this along with me, because he has played it a lot IRL as the card game. Anyway, his comment: "Why are they killing off all the women?" not mine, but since he brought it up, I posted it because I thought huh... he has kind of a point lol :P
Vulash 15 years ago
Kilandra;98438
My husband has been following this along with me, because he has played it a lot IRL as the card game. Anyway, his comment: "Why are they killing off all the women?" not mine, but since he brought it up, I posted it because I thought huh... he has kind of a point lol :P


My list was more men than women, and I've only influenced one lynching - both of the other times I voted for someone else - including a man. I think it's more coincidence than anything - there have only been what, three lynches?

Clues are clues - I'm not sure gender plays a role when Roz assigns the roles.
Vulash 15 years ago
Either way I'm leaning towards boris - if someone wants to do the breakdown between the three that would be awesome. I don't know if I have it in me tonight
Kilandra 15 years ago
Ksagag;98425

I'll have to do supporting research, but I think charcoal leaves a residue on skin also... but I could be wrong. Eating supper then I'll check it out.


She is also ocd and washes her hands a billion times a day.. so no residue on her fingers. tattoos yes. Incriminating myself? Not sure what tattoos on someone else has to do with him not being able to get his own fingers clean. You know what else many people always say never comes off hands? The blood of others.
Vulash 15 years ago
Kilandra;98441
She is also ocd and washes her hands a billion times a day.. so no residue on her fingers. tattoos yes. Incriminating myself? Not sure what tattoos on someone else has to do with him not being able to get his own fingers clean. You know what else many people always say never comes off hands? The blood of others.


That's not a horrible thought going along with Pharren (and someone else's sorry I don't remember) mafia thought. I can't understand why the mafia would hit a mafia, but I guess weirder things have happened.
pharren 15 years ago
It wouldn't have to point to him being Mafia... he was in the Special Forces and regrest his past actions (can't check bio, I'm supposed to be healing right now in this raid) :X
CaptainBinky 15 years ago
EDIT: Forget this then, sorry. Misunderstood the rules
Verileah 15 years ago
Because it's against the rules, please don't do that.
CaptainBinky 15 years ago
Is it? Oh sorry, figured it would be okay because there'd be absolutely no way to determine the validity of the email - it could just as easily be mafia. Sort of the equivalent of slipping a note under a door. My apologies.
Verileah 15 years ago
Sorry, wasn't trying to claw your eyes out or anything - I know it was an honest idea :).

The main reason for the rule was that people were making up anonymous identities on AIM or whatever and there were some accusations of harassment and bullying (not on this board). This ban on making false handles seemed like the best way to protect the players.

I personally also think that it's more fun when you have to trust/rely on a fellow player rather than hiding behind a fake name, but I understand your 'slipping a note under the door' line of thought too.
ROzbeans 15 years ago
pharren;98410
And if you want it to keep track of your outgoing messages, for some reason, that option is now disabled by default. You can track individual PMs by checking the box at the bottom of the PM that says something like "save a copy of this PM in my sent items folder", or you can go into your forum options and check the box that says something similar.


I just double checked that. It was still checked to save by default. Who the hell knows why it's not saving know. Just add it to the 'this board sucks' list =/
Greywood 15 years ago
Yar, i blame the cookies! But anyway, I'm still most convinced of all the clues leaning toward Boris...he was inactive, then reappeared just at the right time to keep from being killed by natural causes. Yes he did have surgery not too long ago (not long after he was the preacher at my wedding!) but I still feel it's just a bit too much of a coincidence along with all the evidence from the hits pointing to him.

As for Vudu, I did see some correlation on the previous clues posted by what people thought but I felt there were clues that were more relevant toward others. I've been only attempting to follow the clues I see as far as my lynch votes go, and maybe I have been led astray but I doubt it with how some of it is going so far. I will say that some of Vudu's rebuttals have put him under more scrutiny...though that may be nothing but his attempts to vindicate himself rightfully, or not rightfully..that remains to be seen. Myraan has been playing a rather odd game, yes she is new, but so am I.

One example...Vulash begins talking in ooc about how he felt the kill scenes had an OCD theme to them.....not 2 hours later Myraan was in character and going through several major OCD episodes. So that brings about 2 possibilities.

One: Myraan was not reading the ooc threads at all.

Two: Myraan was practically daring all of us to accuse her of the kill.

As for the killing of women, I feel we've been going where the clues lead most of the time...day 1 we had almost nothing to go on, day 2 we killed the SK....day 3, we killed a mafia...I see no issue other than we may have killed 1 townie day one =(

Right now I'm curious if the sheriff ever sent anything to Binky...or if the sheriff was already dead..or if he just died. Problem is the sheriff didn't come out to anyone else and say "I'm the sheriff" to try and cover their ass...of course if they were already dead it wouldn't have mattered.

In my opinion Boris needs to die next!
nickenstien 15 years ago
Ksagag;98415
One thing that I was thinking was motor oil. But I think the only people that mentioned cars are no longer around... and wasn't Dia/Vivian an auto mechanic? Not that it matters since she's already dead, but it's a thought.


I don't get why people are focusing on the dirty hands thing. They are clearly and explicitly the dirty hands of the victim (kal), who we know is a homeless vagabond from his bio. So why take that as a clue to who the Mafia are? I would posit that anyone waffling on about that is attempting to derail the discussion.

(PS - I have about 3 more pages of ooc stuff to read up on for this day, so the subject may well have moved on, but it struck me as over-analysis on nothing.)

The only thing that really jumps out as a potentially incriminating clue from the Mafia hit is the Joker/Batman/Jack Nicholson quote. In my opinion we need to really home in on that. And stop wasting our time wondering why a destitute soldier, failed by his country, sleeping in an alley, might be a bit smelly and dirty.
pharren 15 years ago
Right now I'm curious if the sheriff ever sent anything to Binky...or if the sheriff was already dead..or if he just died. Problem is the sheriff didn't come out to anyone else and say "I'm the sheriff" to try and cover their ass...of course if they were already dead it wouldn't have mattered.

Assuming you are a Townie, you don't want this question answered in public, any more than you'd want the knowledge of the Doctor's death made public. There may be hints in the kill/lynch scenes.... but nobody will know for certain. Right now, the mere threat of the Doctor being alive is probably keeping the Mafia from hitting Vulash and Binky. If Binky hasn't posted anything from the Sheriff, it's because:

- He got multiple Sheriff PMs and is working it out with Vulash.
- The Sheriff IDed a Townie that isn't in danger of being lynched and didn't bother to PM or Binky didn't bother to post (to keep Mafia guessing).
- Binky (and possibly Vulash) are Mafia, and just.... I don't know? Wasting people's time? If that were the case, see Disclaimer #1 below.
- The Sheriff is dead (meaning the Sheriff died before the plan was posted, or for some reason Kal was the Sheriff and chose not to trust Binky by sending his previous SKIDs).
- The Sheriff is ShutUpSara (or someone else) and just doesn't want to go along with the plan, for whatever reason... maybe they want the Townies to lose.
- Vulash and/or Binky decided not to post the SKID results for some other reason, as part of some other plan that they don't want publically known.

Whatever the result, we don't really want to make anything public. We want to keep the Mafia confused and off-balance, and keeping them guessing is an easy way to do it.


Disclaimer #1 -- If Vulash and Binky, or even just Binky, are Mafia, and haven't posted, it means they are probably complete fools. Think through all the scenarios, cause I might be missing one.

- Binky is Mafia, and a Sheriff sent him a PM. Mafia would kill the Sheriff, and then pretend that they got a positive ID on some random Townie, and get them lynched.
- Binky is Mafia, and nobody sent him a PM. He could pretend he got a positive ID on some random Townie, and if anyone popped up claiming to be the Sheriff, *bang!*
- Binky is Mafia, and nobody sent him a PM. He is being EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS and doing some shit I can't even imagine.
- Vulash is Mafia, and nobody sent Binky a PM. He is waiting til next round to see if Binky gets a PM, and then having a Mafia pose as Sheriff with a positive ID, claiming they were waiting for a positive ID to send a PM.
- Vulash AND Binky are Mafia, and we are all gonna dieeeeeeeeeeee
- Vulash AND Binky are Mafia, and for some reason, they want the Townies to win.

If Vulash and Binky are Mafia, this could be a ploy to let them live a while longer, since they don't actually need the Doctor's protection... but with everybody thinking they HAVE the Doctor's protection, they automatically think they are Mafia targets, and therefore less likely suspects for lynching. That would be a clever move on their part, and not beyond Vulash by any stretch of the imagination.

And again, if Binky isn't Mafia, it doesn't matter if Vulash is or isn't. The plan can still work. Just use your head and don't vote on something JUST because Binky says to.
Greywood 15 years ago
Oh I know! You forgot the scenario where YOU, Vulash, and Binky are all mafia.....where we all diiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! But really it was just me making a remark about wanting to know, not expecting to find out.
nickenstien 15 years ago
pharren;98457
If Vulash and Binky, or even just Binky, are Mafia, and haven't posted, it means they are probably complete fools. Think through all the scenarios, cause I might be missing one.

- Binky is Mafia, and a Sheriff sent him a PM. Mafia would kill the Sheriff, and then pretend that they got a positive ID on some random Townie, and get them lynched.
- Binky is Mafia, and nobody sent him a PM. He could pretend he got a positive ID on some random Townie, and if anyone popped up claiming to be the Sheriff, *bang!*
- Binky is Mafia, and nobody sent him a PM. He is being EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS and doing some shit I can't even imagine.
- Vulash is Mafia, and nobody sent Binky a PM. He is waiting til next round to see if Binky gets a PM, and then having a Mafia pose as Sheriff with a positive ID, claiming they were waiting for a positive ID to send a PM.
- Vulash AND Binky are Mafia, and we are all gonna dieeeeeeeeeeee
- Vulash AND Binky are Mafia, and for some reason, they want the Townies to win.


This is a similar thought process to the one that I went through yesterday. And is the reason for me coming on board with Vulash's plan. I wanted to see the fallout of it. Now that I have seen the outcome and reactions... I don't feel that either of them are silly enough to make such a slip, so they have now won my trust. (Vulash has _half_ won my trust, my feelings now are that Binky is a safe goat, but that Vulash _may_ be doing some brilliant manipulation. But for now, I still love his plan.)
pharren 15 years ago
I don't get why people are focusing on the dirty hands thing. They are clearly and explicitly the dirty hands of the victim (kal), who we know is a homeless vagabond from his bio. So why take that as a clue to who the Mafia are? I would posit that anyone waffling on about that is attempting to derail the discussion.

(PS - I have about 3 more pages of ooc stuff to read up on for this day, so the subject may well have moved on, but it struck me as over-analysis on nothing.)


I'm not sure about anyone who's undecided about that particular clue are trying to derail the discussion, but I do think they're engaging in a bit of over-analysis (or, imo, incorrect analysis, cause I'm always right and they're disagreeing with me... bastards).

Yeah, the hands are clearly the hands of the victim. That doesn't actually count for all that much when it comes to symbolic clues. Verileah especially, as a mod, likes to throw parallels, symbolism and metaphors at you from unexpected angles.

If it's not a clue pointing to Myraan, then I think it's a non-clue reference to this, from Kal's bio:

He joined the Army's Elite Special Forces, and was soon deployed off to remote parts of the world, undertaking classified missions, doing things that no man should ever have to do in their life. He soon became numb to the things he had to do, pushing the acts out of his mind, so he could do what had to be done to accomplish the mission. Serving in the military until an he was medically discharged for an accident that left his ankle shattered and walking with a limp, he returned to the states, with nowhere to go, he soon found himself a vagabond. His past coming back to haunt him for the atrocities he committed.


Pretty cut-and-dry, it seems. Still a decent clue for Myraan, though. The others... seem to be too much of a stretch for me, for now.
pharren 15 years ago
But really it was just me making a remark about wanting to know, not expecting to find out.


I actually asked if Binky got a response earlier in the thread, and then after thinking it through, realized it would probably be a bad idea for him to answer me either yes or no.

There is at least one other possible scenario regarding Vulash's plan, but I don't want to post it, cause it's simply too terrifying to consider.

Ahh, fuck it... VIGILANTE JUSTICE! Vulash AND Binky are both Townies, and they pretend to get positive IDs from the Sheriff (who may or may not be dead, and it wouldn't even matter, cause they could discredit a real Sheriff with ease), and then get us to lynch whoever the hell they want.

That's why it's most important to not take anything Binky says as gospel. Just regard it as an interesting bit of data, and use it to come to your own independent conclusions.
CaptainBinky 15 years ago
Hello. Right I can think of absolutely no reason not to be open and say that I have received absolutely nothing from either the Sheriff or someone posing as the Sheriff.

Either the Sheriff is dead or they don't trust me as a safe goat - but that leaves us in the position of having to choose whether or not to follow Vulash's plan based only on his choices for the lynches. We have less than a day to come to a consensus o_O
Vulash 15 years ago
I'd rather this didn't turn into a dictatorship style lynching because I can be influenced, and that could ruin us. Boris wouldn't be my first pick today, but it felt like people were wanting that which is why i was figuring Boris - and it's people I'm not suspecting as highly.

I have to head to work but let me think through how this can still work. I think we're on the right track. Binky there were some clues in the last one that scare me, and others, with you - but still less than most I think (or hope?). You've been pretty upfront, and you're actions don't seem very mafialike, but you're an experienced player I think.

My recommendation initially would be to choose 3 people we trust the most as a townie and setup a kind of tribunal. Continue adjusting the list to the "3 most likely" with the input of clues and OOC stuff from everyone - then those 3 pick one off the list. For example right now we have Boris, Myraan, and Vudu - only a few of us see Vudu as that high of a potential - and I'm starting to waver myself so we should choose boris or Myraan. For some weird reason that I'm still trying to look hard at it bothers some people we've lynched all girls (even though we were right one 2, and one was a first day hit). The only merit I do see to this is that there has to be some men in the mafia so eventually we do have to lynch men, but I don't want to make the clues fit the gender I want to lynch - I want to lynch whomever is most likely.

I think that now that we've played this out people are a bit more convinced I'm not mafia - so I'm a candidate, but I'm ok without being the one to choose (I would keep making lists, however). I'll think through the possible 3 it could be - I would say like me, pharren, and binky are likely at the moment, but if people can think of others with less clues than me (and maybe than binky after the last hit) we can discuss it.

I'm going to be honest - if we try to do this democratically with mafia influencing us we're not going to get anywhere. Most likely I'm going to take recommendations and then just make an executive decision about how to proceed, and then you guys will have to trust me or just ignore my plan. It would be better if the sheriff contacted someone.

I'm still slightly concerned that perhaps the sheriff did contact binky, and that is why he is dead - but I feel that is unlikely - just a slight concern.

Sara if you're really the sheriff it would be a good time for you to actually help the townies out since the sheriff is supposed to be a powerful force of good for the townies, and not someone who cryptically makes statements and doesn't help in any way in order to be the last person standing for ego purposes. You'd have to prove it though - I don't trust you.

Ok I'm off to work - everything above was just quick thoughts - I'll put some effort into it throughout the day.