Round 3 - /OOC
Discuss here! OR I WILL SMITE THEE DOWN! For I am GOD! And I SMITE PEOPLE DOWN!
*whispered conference*
Except not so much any more. But I've still got it! Don't test me!
*smite*
Ha! Scared you!
nickenstien
18 years ago
BR, who or what are you talking about there ?
Rae
18 years ago
I think she is refering to someone suggesting that because Armando's bio says that Emilio made his antics look like Armando did it then perhaps because the clue point to Armando then it actually means Emilio is guilty.
The mods have certainly clued things in the past that multiple people have had in common, but they would not clue something specific to Armando intending it to be for Emilio. That would not be fair to Armando because that puts him at greater risk.
The mods have certainly clued things in the past that multiple people have had in common, but they would not clue something specific to Armando intending it to be for Emilio. That would not be fair to Armando because that puts him at greater risk.
nickenstien
18 years ago
I can certainly see why the clues that are given, would be cleverly crafted in such a way that they both implicate the guilty mafia party, and also simultaniously implicate an innocent party at the same time.
If all of the clues implicated only the mafia without hinting towards innocent parties, then it would be way too easy. Also it would leave little or no room for the mafia to level accusations at innocent townies without their accusations looking proposterous.
So a level of ambiguity must exist within the clues in order to keep the game accesible to both Townie and Mafia alike.
It is for this reason that I percieve a stronger connection to the hit with Ezekial. Sure the other person's bio mentions calculus, but ezekial is tied with both mathematics AND poetry/Heiku, just like the hit. The other bio has calculus there, but no mention of poetry. Although I am new to this, and without a wealth of prior experience, I am also kind of second-guessing how these games work as I play :)
If all of the clues implicated only the mafia without hinting towards innocent parties, then it would be way too easy. Also it would leave little or no room for the mafia to level accusations at innocent townies without their accusations looking proposterous.
So a level of ambiguity must exist within the clues in order to keep the game accesible to both Townie and Mafia alike.
It is for this reason that I percieve a stronger connection to the hit with Ezekial. Sure the other person's bio mentions calculus, but ezekial is tied with both mathematics AND poetry/Heiku, just like the hit. The other bio has calculus there, but no mention of poetry. Although I am new to this, and without a wealth of prior experience, I am also kind of second-guessing how these games work as I play :)
Jinheim
18 years ago
From the day 1 hit:
From the movie Pulp Fiction:
The second email he’d found waiting for him in his inbox was worse. “I know. See me in the gym, 23:00.†Signed Sheppard, another pseudonym.
From the movie Pulp Fiction:
Jules: Wanna know what I'm buyin' Ringo?
Pumpkin: What?
Jules: Your life. I'm givin' you that money so I don't hafta kill your ass. You read the Bible?
Pumpkin: Not regularly.
Jules: There's a passage I got memorized. Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. I been sayin' that shit for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a motherfucker before you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some shit this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. 9mm here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that shit ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd.
nickenstien
18 years ago
Ahhhhhh, now when the Shepherd reference points to Ezekial instead of me, I kinda like it ;)
BURN HIM!!!!!!
BURN HIM!!!!!!
Jinheim
18 years ago
I agree, I don't think that the mods would make clues pointing at Armando that are really intended for Emilio - that would be ridiculous. I just thought it was a clever and interesting observation by Eduardo. :razz:
Rae;86877
I think she is refering to someone suggesting that because Armando's bio says that Emilio made his antics look like Armando did it then perhaps because the clue point to Armando then it actually means Emilio is guilty.
The mods have certainly clued things in the past that multiple people have had in common, but they would not clue something specific to Armando intending it to be for Emilio. That would not be fair to Armando because that puts him at greater risk.
I agree, I don't think that the mods would make clues pointing at Armando that are really intended for Emilio - that would be ridiculous. I just thought it was a clever and interesting observation by Eduardo. :razz:
pooka
18 years ago
First off: MEC, when these mods say they play with clues, they play with clues. Check the Firefly and Hogwarts mafias, that I know for sure, and probably any others if you don't believe me.
Players with canine armies: Me (ABAY), MEC (Zenan), Pharren (Andrews). I don't see the mods using that as a clue on all three of us, nor can I say I necessarily trust all my former teammates.
I will say, however, that there are so many clues and so many profiles still in play, I think one needs to look at a clue and also at paranoid behavior. Has Blackrabbit acted suspicious? Well, yes, that's Blackrabbit for you. I'm no veteran, but I've seen her in action enough to know that she often gets people to trust her who shouldn't. I will say it is surprising, then, that she only has one ally thus far. I hadn't fully digested OOC from round 2 when I was first posting, but I'm in the Domo = mafia camp now, such as it is. That makes it less likely that being from Rat army is a clue, which puts Blackrabbit back in the same number of clues as most other people, including myself.
Eduardo, on the other hand, is trying to out the sherrif. Just as someone can't be sure another player isn't mafia, one can't be sure another player isn't the sherrif, In my mind, it is a worse indicator that my reluctance to chase the SK on the first day (though hindsight is 20/20). He also tried to suggest Domo might be innocent on the first page of this thread. So because you are acting suspicious, I look through your profile for clues: http://theangrycrayon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=85857#post85857
Anyone who has not googled "introjection" should please do so, and decide whether it fits what happened in this last hit. I believe it does. There is also the use of the word "grey"(British), the references to trickling ("on the water") in round one.
I noticed a "lunch" theme as I was reading. Is that anyone?
Players with canine armies: Me (ABAY), MEC (Zenan), Pharren (Andrews). I don't see the mods using that as a clue on all three of us, nor can I say I necessarily trust all my former teammates.
I will say, however, that there are so many clues and so many profiles still in play, I think one needs to look at a clue and also at paranoid behavior. Has Blackrabbit acted suspicious? Well, yes, that's Blackrabbit for you. I'm no veteran, but I've seen her in action enough to know that she often gets people to trust her who shouldn't. I will say it is surprising, then, that she only has one ally thus far. I hadn't fully digested OOC from round 2 when I was first posting, but I'm in the Domo = mafia camp now, such as it is. That makes it less likely that being from Rat army is a clue, which puts Blackrabbit back in the same number of clues as most other people, including myself.
Eduardo, on the other hand, is trying to out the sherrif. Just as someone can't be sure another player isn't mafia, one can't be sure another player isn't the sherrif, In my mind, it is a worse indicator that my reluctance to chase the SK on the first day (though hindsight is 20/20). He also tried to suggest Domo might be innocent on the first page of this thread. So because you are acting suspicious, I look through your profile for clues: http://theangrycrayon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=85857#post85857
Anyone who has not googled "introjection" should please do so, and decide whether it fits what happened in this last hit. I believe it does. There is also the use of the word "grey"(British), the references to trickling ("on the water") in round one.
I noticed a "lunch" theme as I was reading. Is that anyone?
CaptainBinky
18 years ago
I'll save you all the bother...
I'm not sure, but I don't really see how that fits into "hacking into someone's computer then stoving their head in with a laptop". I chose introjection because I thought it fitted in with my "retreating into a shell fantasy" thing.
Let's not forget as well that all the references to my fantasy world and introjection are used as a defense mechanism not for offense.
I'm not a computer expert, so I doubt I'm gonna be doing the hacking, and I'm 3'9" and 60lbs which makes me an utter weed, so I don't see how I could have killed someone with a laptop, or shoved someone's face into a joystick.
Yes, note the word might. Unlike other people (hello Blackrabbit and Den) I have never claimed to be certain of anything. The reason that I am unsure of Domo is purely because of the way in which BlackRabbit and Den went for him from the off and never let up until he was dead. First, it was because he was SK. In round 2 it was because he was mafia. But for whatever reason they wanted him dead from the start. In my mind, it is because he was the least likely person to be SK and therefore the safest target for the mafia to go for.
Wikpedia
Introjection is a psychological process where the subject replicates in itself behaviors, attributes or other fragments of the surrounding world, especially of other subjects. Cognate concepts are identification, incorporation and internalization.
According to the psychoanalyst Freud, the ego and the superego are constructed by introjecting external behavioral patterns into the subject's own persona.
Introjection is also the name of a defense mechanism, which handles threats from the outside that can potentially cause anxiety by infolding them into the internal world of the subject, where they can be neutralized or alleviated. More specifically introjection means incorporating attributes, attitudes or qualities of an absent person of high significance (for example, an absent working mother or a recently deceased relative) into oneself.
One example often used is when a child envelops representational images of his absent parents into himself, simultaneously fusing them with his own personality.
I'm not sure, but I don't really see how that fits into "hacking into someone's computer then stoving their head in with a laptop". I chose introjection because I thought it fitted in with my "retreating into a shell fantasy" thing.
Let's not forget as well that all the references to my fantasy world and introjection are used as a defense mechanism not for offense.
I'm not a computer expert, so I doubt I'm gonna be doing the hacking, and I'm 3'9" and 60lbs which makes me an utter weed, so I don't see how I could have killed someone with a laptop, or shoved someone's face into a joystick.
pooka
He also tried to suggest Domo might be innocent on the first page of this thread
Yes, note the word might. Unlike other people (hello Blackrabbit and Den) I have never claimed to be certain of anything. The reason that I am unsure of Domo is purely because of the way in which BlackRabbit and Den went for him from the off and never let up until he was dead. First, it was because he was SK. In round 2 it was because he was mafia. But for whatever reason they wanted him dead from the start. In my mind, it is because he was the least likely person to be SK and therefore the safest target for the mafia to go for.
CaptainBinky
18 years ago
Also, let's not forget the last words of Lynn before she got mafia hit...
and yes, that refers to the S.K kill, I know, but the idea of Emilio being able to blame his brother for his own actions really does seem like a big thing to me.
I don't see why the mods wouldn't use this idea in the clues - after all, that statement is in Emilio's bio and surely anything in there is fair game.
...and from the mafia F.A.Q.
This sounds to me like we're being advised to pay more attention to how people are playing than to the clues which may or may not be in the deaths. This is exactly the opposite logic to the way BlackRabbit and Den are advising us to play.
Lynn
So far to me Emilio and Domo have the most evidence pointing at them.
With Emilio what stood out the most to me was the persuasion, his ability to wiggle his way out of trouble by blaming his brother. Making the murder look like a suicide really coinsides with this to me.
and yes, that refers to the S.K kill, I know, but the idea of Emilio being able to blame his brother for his own actions really does seem like a big thing to me.
I don't see why the mods wouldn't use this idea in the clues - after all, that statement is in Emilio's bio and surely anything in there is fair game.
...and from the mafia F.A.Q.
FAQ
1. Read the death scenes carefully. The mods will sometimes (but not always) include clues that lead to the identity of different characters.
2. Talk. Call people out. Send PMs. Watch who’s voting for who. Lie your rear end off, or tell the truth. Post your suspicions, get a discussion going. This game is about being sneaky.
This sounds to me like we're being advised to pay more attention to how people are playing than to the clues which may or may not be in the deaths. This is exactly the opposite logic to the way BlackRabbit and Den are advising us to play.
pooka
18 years ago
Here's a deal for you. Comb through all the clues and make me a convincing argument for a SK, and I'll vote for them instead of you. But it has to be really convincing.
CaptainBinky
18 years ago
Oh well lookie here... I can't help but notice that the S.K has bumped off Pharren.
This is Pharren - the one person who (while not completely convinced) has at least shown some interest in my logic and has been suspicious of BlackRabbit. Mafia working in cahoots with the SK? Can't kill me - it'd be too obvious. But now who's gonna side with me? No-one and I'm gonna get lynched. Problem solved.
...and now he's dead.
This is Pharren - the one person who (while not completely convinced) has at least shown some interest in my logic and has been suspicious of BlackRabbit. Mafia working in cahoots with the SK? Can't kill me - it'd be too obvious. But now who's gonna side with me? No-one and I'm gonna get lynched. Problem solved.
Pharren to BlackRrabbit
maybe if your behaviour werent so suspicious people would believe you
Pharren to BlackRrabbit and Den
you guys praise Jinheim for his post that is ENTIRELY based on "peoples' attitudes and responses" and he flat out declares soandso is innocent and soandso is mafia. there is mention of ONE clue, which has already been used to convict Domo and sentence him to asphyxiation. if you are going to use ONE clue that pointed to someone WE ALREADY LYNCHED to claim SOME OTHER PEOPLE are mafia, wouldnt you classify that as "conjectural"? you guys are all "CLUES CLUES CLUES!!!!!11" until Jinheim posts.
that in itself is suspicious.
...and now he's dead.
pooka
18 years ago
Pharren was marked by the SK long before he said those things, since all the SKIDS go in between rounds (in games I've played-- never been an SK).
Jinheim's analysis was based on voting patterns extending from the clues on which Domo was lynched. If you seriously question whether Domo was guilty, that's your prerogative.
And just because I'm voting for you doesn't mean you're hung.
You were marking Blackrabbit for mafia, and now for SK. Which is it? What clues would you like to cite?
Fine, I'll do it myself, maybe. Feels a lot easier to just vote for you now, though.
P.S. As to your "defense mechanism" it's listed as your main skill, and as to your physical weakness, " This way, he is able to complete the bravest and most amazing of feats without ever consciously realising he's doing it. "
P.P.S. Re reading the SK hit, it looks like Michael is pretty guilty.
"After all I -am- responsible for every bad thing that has gone on here.”
" Why are you here? I'd think you'd want to stay away from me like everyone else. I'm dangerous you know. Responsible for countless deaths, robberies and even the destruction of a government...kinda small though; I doubt its worth mentioning.”
Something I hadn't brought up on Pharren was how prominently he had figured in Stormie's recent posts, and she'd been "surprised" by her killers.
Jinheim's analysis was based on voting patterns extending from the clues on which Domo was lynched. If you seriously question whether Domo was guilty, that's your prerogative.
And just because I'm voting for you doesn't mean you're hung.
You were marking Blackrabbit for mafia, and now for SK. Which is it? What clues would you like to cite?
Fine, I'll do it myself, maybe. Feels a lot easier to just vote for you now, though.
P.S. As to your "defense mechanism" it's listed as your main skill, and as to your physical weakness, " This way, he is able to complete the bravest and most amazing of feats without ever consciously realising he's doing it. "
P.P.S. Re reading the SK hit, it looks like Michael is pretty guilty.
"After all I -am- responsible for every bad thing that has gone on here.”
" Why are you here? I'd think you'd want to stay away from me like everyone else. I'm dangerous you know. Responsible for countless deaths, robberies and even the destruction of a government...kinda small though; I doubt its worth mentioning.”
Something I hadn't brought up on Pharren was how prominently he had figured in Stormie's recent posts, and she'd been "surprised" by her killers.
CaptainBinky
18 years ago
Just so we're clear... I said mafia working in cahoots with the SK - I never said anything about BlackRabbit being SK herself.
Maybe I've misunderstood this game completely, but wouldn't you expect the S.K. to be targetting townies at least until the number of mafia and townies are about the same? And if the S.K. is striking randomly, then it's more likely that you'd hit a townie since there are more.
So wouldn't it be better to assume that Michael was innocent?
Pooka
You were marking Blackrabbit for mafia, and now for SK. Which is it?
Just so we're clear... I said mafia working in cahoots with the SK - I never said anything about BlackRabbit being SK herself.
Pooka
Re reading the SK hit, it looks like Michael is pretty guilty.
Maybe I've misunderstood this game completely, but wouldn't you expect the S.K. to be targetting townies at least until the number of mafia and townies are about the same? And if the S.K. is striking randomly, then it's more likely that you'd hit a townie since there are more.
So wouldn't it be better to assume that Michael was innocent?
pooka
18 years ago
The only time I've seen an SK win is by allying with the townies. I'm not saying it's a smart strategy for the town. What would an SK have to gain by killing all the townies before they could lynch enough mafia?
CaptainBinky
18 years ago
Well the townies would be trying to lynch the SK - it's already been mentioned before that it's smart for the townies to get the SK first.
So if the SK allies with the mafia, then the SK is safer from lynching.
Obviously once it's about 50-50, the SK would have to start going for the mafia or the SK would be hit.
So if the SK allies with the mafia, then the SK is safer from lynching.
Obviously once it's about 50-50, the SK would have to start going for the mafia or the SK would be hit.
MashPotato
18 years ago
I found it interesting that Michael Andrews was hit by the SK, as it would seem that the SK, if he/she wasn't Splaz, would have been much safer to hit either Eduardo or Ezekial, since they were the only ones (besides Domo, who's already dead) who was targeting Splaz as SK. Bump one of us off, and the blame goes to Splaz. The move NOT to do so seems to indicate that the SK doesn't want attention on Splaz.
Also, note that Splaz has been on about Eduardo and Ezekial being mafia... trying to find a way to get rid of them, without killing them directly?
Also, would like to mention that Ezekial is considerably taller than Eduardo, meaning the scenario of Eduardo being in the dream while Ezekial kills doesn't jive with the alpha being larger than the rest.
You may wonder why I seem to be defending Eduardo, and that's not really the case--frankly, I don't know if Eduardo is mafia or not... it's just that for some reason we've been grouped together based on coincidences, and that doesn't make sense.
Voting times? if you look at the thread, 10 people voted within ~one hour of time, there was a big spike of voting at the time Eduardo and Ezekial voted.
Also, note that Splaz has been on about Eduardo and Ezekial being mafia... trying to find a way to get rid of them, without killing them directly?
Also, would like to mention that Ezekial is considerably taller than Eduardo, meaning the scenario of Eduardo being in the dream while Ezekial kills doesn't jive with the alpha being larger than the rest.
You may wonder why I seem to be defending Eduardo, and that's not really the case--frankly, I don't know if Eduardo is mafia or not... it's just that for some reason we've been grouped together based on coincidences, and that doesn't make sense.
Voting times? if you look at the thread, 10 people voted within ~one hour of time, there was a big spike of voting at the time Eduardo and Ezekial voted.
ROzbeans
18 years ago
That's happened twice, rather that the SK allied themselves with another team. Haunted Mansion - it was the SK and mafia (that was a twist, I think the mafia conspired to kill their own GF in that one) and then Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy mafia - that was SK/Townie.
pooka;86915
The only time I've seen an SK win is by allying with the townies. I'm not saying it's a smart strategy for the town. What would an SK have to gain by killing all the townies before they could lynch enough mafia?
That's happened twice, rather that the SK allied themselves with another team. Haunted Mansion - it was the SK and mafia (that was a twist, I think the mafia conspired to kill their own GF in that one) and then Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy mafia - that was SK/Townie.
Blackrabbit
18 years ago
Stupid Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Mafia. *mutters darkly at Mai*
;)
;)
pooka
18 years ago
Yes, but I mean a scenario when the SK was literally the last standing. The townies (in little Mafia on the prairie) thought they allied with the SK but she pared them down far enough that they ran out of manpower in the end.
Verileah
18 years ago
You know, Little Mafia on the Prairie ended up being one of my favorite mafias. I still have some of the death scenes from that one - I sort of had the funny going on in that game.
Good times.
Good times.