I had a similar experience last school year with the teachers trying to put my daughter at fault for her social behavior, when it was really the teachers at fault. You really have to stand your ground with them and not let them make you feel like a failure. There is NO EXCUSE for them to allow bullying to go on no matter what the situation is. Pesonally, I would have been livid if my daughter was changed to a different class without my prior consent or knowledge, but then again I work at her school so there wouldn't be any excuse for them to do so other than being sneaky in my case.
Are you having any other problems with him at home, besides just his interaction with kids at school?
Say Anything.
'Say Anything' is a John Cusak/Cameron Crowe 1989 teen flick. ' A noble underachiever and a beautiful valedictorian fall in love the summer before she goes off to college.' This is actually not what this thread is about, but the message is the same.
Actually no it isn't, I just like imdb.com and the title sounded interesting. /snort
This is not necessarily a vent thread - far from it. This is about saying anything - weather, the bird outside your work window, the fundamental differences between Mormons and catholics, how Law and Order Criminal Intent doesn't get the props it deserves, that I always forget whether it's 'it's' or 'its', that my daughter has a beautiful smile and the first guy that breaks her heart - I'm breaking his knees...it's about anything.
So, say anything.
Lillaanya
16 years ago
tamaelia
16 years ago
He wasn't changed classes as such, it is a new school year here so he has moved up from year 4 to year 5. I don't think I was very clear on that.
At home, I dunno I would have said he isn't any more difficult than any other 10 year old boy. He is a first child with all the ego that goes with that. He is great at telling his sister what she should and shouldn't do. He is pretty emotionally sensitive and expressive. His sister certainly knows how to press his buttons, and he can react pretty intensely... they have the odd scrap where she will slap him and he will hit her and we have to do the whole "not in this house" routine. Which I remember getting as a kid too so I don't think its outside the normal range of kids learning boundaries and what is appropriate.
Whether he gets this from his father or not... his dad is a talker, he explains stuff to the point where your eyes glaze over. He can labor the point with the kids, lecturing them on stuff. I think it is just his nature to try and make sure he is completely understood but I know from experience that kids don't usually respond well to that. Hell, most adults don't :) Being a cop I think he is also used to asking for and expecting compliance with directions so maybe that has translated into the family dynamic. The example would be that if you want something done, you tell the person what to do. Which of course never works with a group of boys. And I have seen Dale in action, telling boys "no that's not how you play, these are the rules etc" and when they say no, they want to do it a different way, that is when Dale overreacts.
It is like he has an over-developed sense of justice and I think he believes that if he thinks something is a good idea, that everyone else will too, and he just doesn't get that other kids may have other ideas that are different. (like of course we will do it my way, it is the right way so why would you do it any other way? ) And he has a short temper in that situation. He will blow up beyond what I think is appropriate.
But I am not at school to give him the look when he gets in that mind, so how do I teach him that self control when I am not there. I swear it will tear me apart if it doesn't get better soon.
At home, I dunno I would have said he isn't any more difficult than any other 10 year old boy. He is a first child with all the ego that goes with that. He is great at telling his sister what she should and shouldn't do. He is pretty emotionally sensitive and expressive. His sister certainly knows how to press his buttons, and he can react pretty intensely... they have the odd scrap where she will slap him and he will hit her and we have to do the whole "not in this house" routine. Which I remember getting as a kid too so I don't think its outside the normal range of kids learning boundaries and what is appropriate.
Whether he gets this from his father or not... his dad is a talker, he explains stuff to the point where your eyes glaze over. He can labor the point with the kids, lecturing them on stuff. I think it is just his nature to try and make sure he is completely understood but I know from experience that kids don't usually respond well to that. Hell, most adults don't :) Being a cop I think he is also used to asking for and expecting compliance with directions so maybe that has translated into the family dynamic. The example would be that if you want something done, you tell the person what to do. Which of course never works with a group of boys. And I have seen Dale in action, telling boys "no that's not how you play, these are the rules etc" and when they say no, they want to do it a different way, that is when Dale overreacts.
It is like he has an over-developed sense of justice and I think he believes that if he thinks something is a good idea, that everyone else will too, and he just doesn't get that other kids may have other ideas that are different. (like of course we will do it my way, it is the right way so why would you do it any other way? ) And he has a short temper in that situation. He will blow up beyond what I think is appropriate.
But I am not at school to give him the look when he gets in that mind, so how do I teach him that self control when I am not there. I swear it will tear me apart if it doesn't get better soon.
Kelefane
16 years ago
Most/all of the good oldschool teachers are all retired. These days, your gonna have some 23-25 year old teacher fresh out of college that isnt mentally ready to handle a kid of their own, much less teach a room full of children/teens etc.
I was lucky when I went to school. Most of my teachers were all 15-20+ year veterans that knew how to teach and treated the student body with dignity. Hell, I had a few teachers who taught my Momma and Daddy (thats how long they had been around)
I always hated to see some 23 year old punk come strolling into the classroom to teach me. I think in some cases, someone fresh out of college needs to prove themselves to the school they teach for along with proving themselves to the students. It should never be the other way around.
Anyhow - Education in this country is taking a fucking nosedive regardless.
I was lucky when I went to school. Most of my teachers were all 15-20+ year veterans that knew how to teach and treated the student body with dignity. Hell, I had a few teachers who taught my Momma and Daddy (thats how long they had been around)
I always hated to see some 23 year old punk come strolling into the classroom to teach me. I think in some cases, someone fresh out of college needs to prove themselves to the school they teach for along with proving themselves to the students. It should never be the other way around.
Anyhow - Education in this country is taking a fucking nosedive regardless.
Verileah
16 years ago
Tam is in Australia :).
Unless I'm confused :X.
I agree with Lillaanya. And Pharren, especially about getting a second opinion.
A big part of my kid's social learning is working on not being a 'rules police'. It's hard when they're technically correct and doing a good thing in at least remembering the rules. Social stuff is difficult :(. Especially the 'not everyone is going to be your friend' talk.
Unless I'm confused :X.
I agree with Lillaanya. And Pharren, especially about getting a second opinion.
A big part of my kid's social learning is working on not being a 'rules police'. It's hard when they're technically correct and doing a good thing in at least remembering the rules. Social stuff is difficult :(. Especially the 'not everyone is going to be your friend' talk.
Lillaanya
16 years ago
I can see the "gay" reference the kids are using if your son likes to talk a lot. Girls like to talk, boys like to be physical, and the other kids may be seeing that as feminine rather than just simply different, as it is. Kids that age are becoming much more socially aware. They want desparately to "fit in" and not be different. Your nephew could very well simply be feeling those pressures from the other students and doesn't know how to handle it, so rather than doing what's right he does what is easy.
It might not be a bad idea to ask a Dr about your son too. All kids are different no matter what, but in some cases being able to pinpoint those differences more accurately can make a world of difference. My daughter falls in that "gifted" or "talented" catagory, and she has quite a few social quirks because she just doesn't relate to children her own age very well. We have had to teach her to use a lot of patience, and try to help expand her social contacts so she could find more friends that think more on her level. A friend of mine has a son that was recently diagnosed with a mild degree of Asperger's, and she swears that diagnosis was the best day ever for their family. They know now why he does and acts the way he does, and they know what to do for him, what teachers to put him with etc.
Just the simple fact that you care this much about what is happening with your child and that you are trying to do what you can to help makes you a good parent. Don't EVER let anyone else ever make you feel otherwise.
It might not be a bad idea to ask a Dr about your son too. All kids are different no matter what, but in some cases being able to pinpoint those differences more accurately can make a world of difference. My daughter falls in that "gifted" or "talented" catagory, and she has quite a few social quirks because she just doesn't relate to children her own age very well. We have had to teach her to use a lot of patience, and try to help expand her social contacts so she could find more friends that think more on her level. A friend of mine has a son that was recently diagnosed with a mild degree of Asperger's, and she swears that diagnosis was the best day ever for their family. They know now why he does and acts the way he does, and they know what to do for him, what teachers to put him with etc.
Just the simple fact that you care this much about what is happening with your child and that you are trying to do what you can to help makes you a good parent. Don't EVER let anyone else ever make you feel otherwise.
Vulash
16 years ago
I'm not a parent but I have a few comments.
First, I would run entire star trek battles in my head up through 7th grade. I turned out fucking awesome. I still play D&D, and quite honestly I learned more from that, and other imagination stimulation games (and reading) than I did from high school.
Second, I think you can take comfort in the fact that usually the kids that are picked on at a younger age turn out badass, and the bullies turn into fat drunken slobs that drool over young girls. It's a stereotype I know, but there is some truth to it. So I wouldn't worry too much about the long run, or beat yourself up by thinking you failed. Often kids being raised to show respect, think for themselves, etc are the ones that stand out as odd at first in school. If your kid wasn't somewhat of an outcast he would probably be picking on an outcast with others - a fate I consider worse. Having said that I know it is heartbreaking - my nephew had minor issues adjusting at first to preschool, and it tore me up thinking about him feeling left out, and he wasn't even my own son. I truly feel for your situation.
Now that I've said all of that I suggest getting a second (and more qualified) opinion because there could be an actual social issue that needs addressed. If so it might do him worlds of good to find out early, and if not it will give you some relief.
Third - Kelefane I strongly disagree. Many of the best teachers I've had were younger. My niece and nephew's current teacher is 23 or 24 and she is AMAZING - they've learned so much with her. Often, the younger teachers have innovative new approaches and a fresh unjaded outlook. Older teachers can be stuck in a rut, or too stubborn to change. On the flip side older teachers have more experience. So my point is I don't think you can hem teaching ability to age. I had two old bitches for 2nd and 3rd grade that were fucking horrible. They were so mean that I would have no problem telling them to their faces they were horrible bitches to a kid if I saw them again. I think we just don't have many good teachers in America - and age can't really be used to say anything about ability.
First, I would run entire star trek battles in my head up through 7th grade. I turned out fucking awesome. I still play D&D, and quite honestly I learned more from that, and other imagination stimulation games (and reading) than I did from high school.
Second, I think you can take comfort in the fact that usually the kids that are picked on at a younger age turn out badass, and the bullies turn into fat drunken slobs that drool over young girls. It's a stereotype I know, but there is some truth to it. So I wouldn't worry too much about the long run, or beat yourself up by thinking you failed. Often kids being raised to show respect, think for themselves, etc are the ones that stand out as odd at first in school. If your kid wasn't somewhat of an outcast he would probably be picking on an outcast with others - a fate I consider worse. Having said that I know it is heartbreaking - my nephew had minor issues adjusting at first to preschool, and it tore me up thinking about him feeling left out, and he wasn't even my own son. I truly feel for your situation.
Now that I've said all of that I suggest getting a second (and more qualified) opinion because there could be an actual social issue that needs addressed. If so it might do him worlds of good to find out early, and if not it will give you some relief.
Third - Kelefane I strongly disagree. Many of the best teachers I've had were younger. My niece and nephew's current teacher is 23 or 24 and she is AMAZING - they've learned so much with her. Often, the younger teachers have innovative new approaches and a fresh unjaded outlook. Older teachers can be stuck in a rut, or too stubborn to change. On the flip side older teachers have more experience. So my point is I don't think you can hem teaching ability to age. I had two old bitches for 2nd and 3rd grade that were fucking horrible. They were so mean that I would have no problem telling them to their faces they were horrible bitches to a kid if I saw them again. I think we just don't have many good teachers in America - and age can't really be used to say anything about ability.
pharren
16 years ago
That sounds like me!
THAT SOUNDS LIKE ME TOO!
It's like you guys are spying on me!
It is like he has an over-developed sense of justice and I think he believes that if he thinks something is a good idea, that everyone else will too, and he just doesn't get that other kids may have other ideas that are different. (like of course we will do it my way, it is the right way so why would you do it any other way? ) And he has a short temper in that situation. He will blow up beyond what I think is appropriate.
That sounds like me!
I turned out fucking awesome.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE ME TOO!
fat drunken slobs that drool over young girls
It's like you guys are spying on me!
Kelefane
16 years ago
I think that maybe an exception and not the rule. There are some awesome older / middle aged teachers out there that are better than their younger counterparts due to experience and just genuinely being better at what they do due to going through the ropes for so many years.
Yeah, there are both good and bad in both age groups - I guess I shouldnt say one is better than the other outright. Thats to much of an unfounded bold statement to make.
Im just going by personal experiences and your mileage may vary.
Vulash;112658
Third - Kelefane I strongly disagree. Many of the best teachers I've had were younger. My niece and nephew's current teacher is 23 or 24 and she is AMAZING - they've learned so much with her. Often, the younger teachers have innovative new approaches and a fresh unjaded outlook. Older teachers can be stuck in a rut, or too stubborn to change. On the flip side older teachers have more experience. So my point is I don't think you can hem teaching ability to age. I had two old bitches for 2nd and 3rd grade that were fucking horrible. They were so mean that I would have no problem telling them to their faces they were horrible bitches to a kid if I saw them again. I think we just don't have many good teachers in America - and age can't really be used to say anything about ability.
I think that maybe an exception and not the rule. There are some awesome older / middle aged teachers out there that are better than their younger counterparts due to experience and just genuinely being better at what they do due to going through the ropes for so many years.
Yeah, there are both good and bad in both age groups - I guess I shouldnt say one is better than the other outright. Thats to much of an unfounded bold statement to make.
Im just going by personal experiences and your mileage may vary.
Vulash
16 years ago
I guess my point is why is your personal experience the norm and mine the exception? I've also done a lot of research into teaching, and been involved with a few ins and outs of the field.
Kelefane;112662
I think that maybe an exception and not the rule. There are some awesome older / middle aged teachers out there that are better than their younger counterparts due to experience and just genuinely being better at what they do due to going through the ropes for so many years.
Yeah, there are both good and bad in both age groups - I guess I shouldnt say one is better than the other outright. Thats to much of an unfounded bold statement to make.
Im just going by personal experiences and your mileage may vary.
I guess my point is why is your personal experience the norm and mine the exception? I've also done a lot of research into teaching, and been involved with a few ins and outs of the field.
Vulash
16 years ago
I have the ESPs
pharren;112660
That sounds like me!
THAT SOUNDS LIKE ME TOO!
It's like you guys are spying on me!
I have the ESPs
Kelefane
16 years ago
Ive heard and read way too many bad things over the years about younger teachers and students and sex scandals and so on to really have an unbiased opinion in this discussion. I just feel like way too many times, younger teachers in the 23-25 age group fresh out of college, are still in that party mindframe and arent ready to have a kid of their own, much less teach a room full of kids or teens etc.
Hell, in Texas, just a short few years ago, we had an incident in a nearby school where this man (24) which was a teacher was dating a Jr chick in HS and always showed up to the parties the teens had etc, that should not be happening and its very unprofessional....and if I had to guess, that happens more often than not in that age group of teachers. I also feel as if this is a good reason as to why our education overall in America is going down the shitter. When you see teacher and student as more or less being the same person with the same habits and same exact mindframe, your gonna run into issues that a lot see as being taboo.
I mean, say you get a fine young 23 year old teacher fresh out of college with a bunch of 17-18 year old Sr boys...they are gonna hit on her and look at her as a piece of ass.....thats not exactly something students should be doing and a lot of these teachers oblige.
Now that doesnt mean that there arent good young teachers out there.
Vulash;112664
I guess my point is why is your personal experience the norm and mine the exception? I've also done a lot of research into teaching, and been involved with a few ins and outs of the field.
Ive heard and read way too many bad things over the years about younger teachers and students and sex scandals and so on to really have an unbiased opinion in this discussion. I just feel like way too many times, younger teachers in the 23-25 age group fresh out of college, are still in that party mindframe and arent ready to have a kid of their own, much less teach a room full of kids or teens etc.
Hell, in Texas, just a short few years ago, we had an incident in a nearby school where this man (24) which was a teacher was dating a Jr chick in HS and always showed up to the parties the teens had etc, that should not be happening and its very unprofessional....and if I had to guess, that happens more often than not in that age group of teachers. I also feel as if this is a good reason as to why our education overall in America is going down the shitter. When you see teacher and student as more or less being the same person with the same habits and same exact mindframe, your gonna run into issues that a lot see as being taboo.
I mean, say you get a fine young 23 year old teacher fresh out of college with a bunch of 17-18 year old Sr boys...they are gonna hit on her and look at her as a piece of ass.....thats not exactly something students should be doing and a lot of these teachers oblige.
Now that doesnt mean that there arent good young teachers out there.
Vulash
16 years ago
Reading stories about isolated incidents doesn't tell you anything about the overall scheme of things.
Also - even if 10% of young teachers were having sex scandals with students (a GROSSLY exaggerated number) that is still a VERY tiny percentage of teachers, and can't explain why our education system is going down the shitter at all. It doesn't even begin to touch any of the basic issues with our system. They are isolated problems that are not normal, and do not lead to overall problems within the entire system like many other issues do. I think we simply aren't going to agree on this.
Also - even if 10% of young teachers were having sex scandals with students (a GROSSLY exaggerated number) that is still a VERY tiny percentage of teachers, and can't explain why our education system is going down the shitter at all. It doesn't even begin to touch any of the basic issues with our system. They are isolated problems that are not normal, and do not lead to overall problems within the entire system like many other issues do. I think we simply aren't going to agree on this.
Laschae
16 years ago
I'm sort of in the same boat Tam so you aren't the only one. Less than a week ago Kami was sobbing at the table because the kids at school said she could play with them and then when the time came they told her to go away. When she brought her grades home in the envelope was a letter from the school counselor asking our permission to do counseling with Kami to work on her social skills. She's always clung to CeCe and only has 'friends' because she plays with CeCe's friends. But the time is almost up. Next year CeCe is off to Jr. High and Kami will be on her own for 2 years. So I hope the counseling will help her.
I agree ask a doctor to see if there's something that can help and if not beat the kids ass and his mothers...:winky
I agree ask a doctor to see if there's something that can help and if not beat the kids ass and his mothers...:winky
pharren
16 years ago
One of the "deans" in my high school was the same way; fresh out of college, hit on all the young girls, went to parties, slept with more than one girl. A dean at my school was basically a trumped-up security guard, not a teacher at all, but still... they had to have degrees and whatnot.
I think every straight male in my chemistry class either failed or came close to failing, because we were too busy drooling to pay attention to what the teacher was actually saying.
Hell, in Texas, just a short few years ago, we had an incident in a nearby school where this man (24) which was a teacher was dating a Jr chick in HS and always showed up to the parties the teens had etc, that should not be happening and its very unprofessional....and if I had to guess, that happens more often than not in that age group of teachers.
One of the "deans" in my high school was the same way; fresh out of college, hit on all the young girls, went to parties, slept with more than one girl. A dean at my school was basically a trumped-up security guard, not a teacher at all, but still... they had to have degrees and whatnot.
I mean, say you get a fine young 23 year old teacher fresh out of college with a bunch of 17-18 year old Sr boys...they are gonna hit on her and look at her as a piece of ass.....
I think every straight male in my chemistry class either failed or came close to failing, because we were too busy drooling to pay attention to what the teacher was actually saying.
Nianya
16 years ago
:ole
My hubby had a job interview this morning in a town an hour away. Well the company just called and said he just left but they want to offer him a job, if I could try to get in touch with him on his cell to have him turn around. Well hubby (not a morning person lol) left his stupid cell phone in the livingroom.
So now I have to wait for him to get home to give him the good news. He doesn't even know yet! LOL They said if I couldn't get ahold of him and get him back this morning, then they can set up something for Monday instead. Man this is good. Hubby got of the Marines back in Feb 09 (not by choice.. his reenlistement was denied because his ankle is all fucked up...and atfer 12 faithful years they told him fuck off all because he couldnt run 5 miles anymore) and hasn't been employed since. He's put in TONS of resumes, but only a couple interviews. Civilian job market is the suck.
This is going to be weird. I've been a military brat since I was 10 yrs old. Im almost 32 now and have never lived in one place for more than 4 yrs. The idea of actually settling down is scary yet exciting. We could actually buy a house and not have to move in 3-4yrs! Speaking of which, we were looking at some houses in the town where he just got hired (Bryan/College Station TX)... and found this really nice 3bd 2 ba brick house in one of those snobby neighborhoods lol and we're suppose to go look at it tomorrow. It has a 6ft tall privacy fenced in yard, but no clue exactly how big the backyard is. I have 3 dogs.. so I'm keeping my fingers crossed it's not horribly small.
Anyway.. I just need to tell someone the exciting news. Hubby is going to be so happy!!
My hubby had a job interview this morning in a town an hour away. Well the company just called and said he just left but they want to offer him a job, if I could try to get in touch with him on his cell to have him turn around. Well hubby (not a morning person lol) left his stupid cell phone in the livingroom.
So now I have to wait for him to get home to give him the good news. He doesn't even know yet! LOL They said if I couldn't get ahold of him and get him back this morning, then they can set up something for Monday instead. Man this is good. Hubby got of the Marines back in Feb 09 (not by choice.. his reenlistement was denied because his ankle is all fucked up...and atfer 12 faithful years they told him fuck off all because he couldnt run 5 miles anymore) and hasn't been employed since. He's put in TONS of resumes, but only a couple interviews. Civilian job market is the suck.
This is going to be weird. I've been a military brat since I was 10 yrs old. Im almost 32 now and have never lived in one place for more than 4 yrs. The idea of actually settling down is scary yet exciting. We could actually buy a house and not have to move in 3-4yrs! Speaking of which, we were looking at some houses in the town where he just got hired (Bryan/College Station TX)... and found this really nice 3bd 2 ba brick house in one of those snobby neighborhoods lol and we're suppose to go look at it tomorrow. It has a 6ft tall privacy fenced in yard, but no clue exactly how big the backyard is. I have 3 dogs.. so I'm keeping my fingers crossed it's not horribly small.
Anyway.. I just need to tell someone the exciting news. Hubby is going to be so happy!!
ROzbeans
16 years ago
Congratulations, Nia!
Den
16 years ago
Grats Nianya!! That is awesome news!
Temprah
16 years ago
woot that's great Nia! And yes I know how the civi job sector sucks. Bobby got laid off in Feb of last year, got lucky and landed a temp gig through July and has been looking ever since. He's getting depressed I think, since even with over 10 years experience he can't get hired. Lots of interviews but there are sooo many people looking even being narrowed down to one of the final 5 or 10 (happened many times) still.. nothing.
ROzbeans
16 years ago
Didn't you and your husband work for the same company, Temp?
KaAnna
16 years ago
I can't find my flippin' eraser!