Dragon Age: Origins
Anyone play this yet? (is it even out) and if its not out, anyone gonna play it?
Looks pretty awesome.
ROzbeans
16 years ago
Mages get to shapeshift. Tim you're not a girl - we get emotionally invested in this shit lol.
pharren
16 years ago
Men just jerk off to naked Blood Elf wenches /dancing on top of the Orgrimmar bank.
Vulash
16 years ago
Yes, but it sucks
Kelefane;112070
There is a shapeshifting class?
Yes, but it sucks
Vulash
16 years ago
It's true - I'm not.
ROzbeans;112071
Mages get to shapeshift. Tim you're not a girl - we get emotionally invested in this shit lol.
It's true - I'm not.
pharren
16 years ago
I haven't seen anything in-game to verify this. I had thought the same thing, and used daggers with Leliana through my whole first playthrough, but I've been using a sword in mainhand since the origin story on my human rogue. I still get crits from behind, which surprised the hell out of me. Maybe if I find a good dagger for mainhand I will use it, but right now, my tier 3 sword is better damage than the tier 5 dagger I just picked up in the mage tower.
But that's according to the character sheet...
I wish there was a more reliable way of checking your damage output. The dps tooltip thingy on the character sheet doesn't seem to factor in runes, and the combat text goes by so quickly, that I'm not even 100% positive how they work: does it just add a flat +5 (or whatever) damage on top of your normal damage? +5 base damage would be sweet, but something tells me that's not the case :P
Here's an example of how unintuitive the whole weapon damage system is to me. Forgive my crappy formatting, because I can't figure out how to make a table with bb code.
I just killed Uldred and I'm selling leftover stuff, trying to figure out which weapons to keep. My 4 weapon choices are:
Saw Sword (I'll call this "SS")
Tier 3
8.4 dmg
2.4 crit
2.6 arp
+1 dmg
+1% crit
Thorn of the Dead Gods (T)
Tier 2
4.4 dmg
3.3 crit
4.6 arp
+2 dmg
+2 arp
Long Sword (LS)
Tier 5
9.8 dmg
2.8 crit
3.2 arp
2 rune slots
Beastmaster's Dagger or some shit (B)
Tier 5
5.6 dmg
4.2 crit
6.4 arp
+10% crit/backstab dmg
2 rune slots
Obviously, trying to take into account the +10% crit/bs dmg mod is going to be difficult, so I have to just ignore that for now. I'm also not sure how to figure in the rune slots; even if I had two Grandmaster runes in each weapon... is that 10 damage every hit? How much do I normally hit for, anyways, before taking armor into account? Is it the number in the character sheet, which states "potential damage against an unarmored enemy" or something to that effect?
Here's what the character sheet has to say about my weapon combinations:
SS / T
41.8 combined damage
20.4% / 21.3% crit chance
8 / 10 armor penetration
LS / T
41.6 combined damage
19.8% / 20.3% crit chance
9 / 10 armor penetration
SS / B
39.3 combined damage
20.4% / 22.3% crit chance
6 / 10 armor penetration
LS / B
39.1 combined damage
19.8% / 21.2% crit chance
7 / 10 armor penetration
B / T
34.5 combined damage
21.2% / 20.3% crit chance
12 / 10 armor penetration
As you can see, the two dagger combination is the worst, aside from having high armor penetration on the mainhand. The two lower tier weapons really dominate (on paper, at least), due to their green damage bonuses, both of which obviously apply to both weapons - something I didn't realize until today - and are added to base damage, unlike runes - something else I didn't realize until today.
So, what do I do? Will the 4 rune slots be enough to make up for the lost damage and crits? Will it be way more damage? Isn't it risky, since, for example, using fire runes and fighting a fire creature will heal it instead of damage it? Or is that only with a very few enemies, or maybe only these certain ones in the mage tower? With Leliana, I used Paralyze runes, thinking to take advantage of Coup de Grace, and maybe Crushing Prison, but they barely ever seemed to proc. Alistair used spell resist and physical resist runes, which I'll do again with him...
I really can't see any disadvantage to using swords. I seem to be backstabbing with it... I make the backstab animation, and get a critical strike. If it's not truly a backstab, then I'll make sure I use a dagger in mainhand once I get more Assassin talents. Do you backstab with both hands? I really wish there was more detailed information available somewhere :\. I've been thinking about which weapons to use for an hour now, and I'm only level 9 :oops
Oh, and I wish you could see what debuffs you have on a mob. God, that would be really handy for me.
daggers, which is where rogues shine
I haven't seen anything in-game to verify this. I had thought the same thing, and used daggers with Leliana through my whole first playthrough, but I've been using a sword in mainhand since the origin story on my human rogue. I still get crits from behind, which surprised the hell out of me. Maybe if I find a good dagger for mainhand I will use it, but right now, my tier 3 sword is better damage than the tier 5 dagger I just picked up in the mage tower.
But that's according to the character sheet...
I wish there was a more reliable way of checking your damage output. The dps tooltip thingy on the character sheet doesn't seem to factor in runes, and the combat text goes by so quickly, that I'm not even 100% positive how they work: does it just add a flat +5 (or whatever) damage on top of your normal damage? +5 base damage would be sweet, but something tells me that's not the case :P
Here's an example of how unintuitive the whole weapon damage system is to me. Forgive my crappy formatting, because I can't figure out how to make a table with bb code.
I just killed Uldred and I'm selling leftover stuff, trying to figure out which weapons to keep. My 4 weapon choices are:
Saw Sword (I'll call this "SS")
Tier 3
8.4 dmg
2.4 crit
2.6 arp
+1 dmg
+1% crit
Thorn of the Dead Gods (T)
Tier 2
4.4 dmg
3.3 crit
4.6 arp
+2 dmg
+2 arp
Long Sword (LS)
Tier 5
9.8 dmg
2.8 crit
3.2 arp
2 rune slots
Beastmaster's Dagger or some shit (B)
Tier 5
5.6 dmg
4.2 crit
6.4 arp
+10% crit/backstab dmg
2 rune slots
Obviously, trying to take into account the +10% crit/bs dmg mod is going to be difficult, so I have to just ignore that for now. I'm also not sure how to figure in the rune slots; even if I had two Grandmaster runes in each weapon... is that 10 damage every hit? How much do I normally hit for, anyways, before taking armor into account? Is it the number in the character sheet, which states "potential damage against an unarmored enemy" or something to that effect?
Here's what the character sheet has to say about my weapon combinations:
SS / T
41.8 combined damage
20.4% / 21.3% crit chance
8 / 10 armor penetration
LS / T
41.6 combined damage
19.8% / 20.3% crit chance
9 / 10 armor penetration
SS / B
39.3 combined damage
20.4% / 22.3% crit chance
6 / 10 armor penetration
LS / B
39.1 combined damage
19.8% / 21.2% crit chance
7 / 10 armor penetration
B / T
34.5 combined damage
21.2% / 20.3% crit chance
12 / 10 armor penetration
As you can see, the two dagger combination is the worst, aside from having high armor penetration on the mainhand. The two lower tier weapons really dominate (on paper, at least), due to their green damage bonuses, both of which obviously apply to both weapons - something I didn't realize until today - and are added to base damage, unlike runes - something else I didn't realize until today.
So, what do I do? Will the 4 rune slots be enough to make up for the lost damage and crits? Will it be way more damage? Isn't it risky, since, for example, using fire runes and fighting a fire creature will heal it instead of damage it? Or is that only with a very few enemies, or maybe only these certain ones in the mage tower? With Leliana, I used Paralyze runes, thinking to take advantage of Coup de Grace, and maybe Crushing Prison, but they barely ever seemed to proc. Alistair used spell resist and physical resist runes, which I'll do again with him...
I really can't see any disadvantage to using swords. I seem to be backstabbing with it... I make the backstab animation, and get a critical strike. If it's not truly a backstab, then I'll make sure I use a dagger in mainhand once I get more Assassin talents. Do you backstab with both hands? I really wish there was more detailed information available somewhere :\. I've been thinking about which weapons to use for an hour now, and I'm only level 9 :oops
Oh, and I wish you could see what debuffs you have on a mob. God, that would be really handy for me.
Vulash
16 years ago
The difference is that they the damage for the weapons are calculated by different stats, and the weapon speeds factor in. There is a great thread where they've parsed this all out, but dagger/dagger with almost all cunning (enough dex to get the abilities you want) is by far the best - especially if you don't have the dex hotfix. dagger/dagger with all dex has a few other perks as well, but cunning dagger build is the best (if you are min maxing I should say)
pharren;112090
I haven't seen anything in-game to verify this. I had thought the same thing, and used daggers with Leliana through my whole first playthrough, but I've been using a sword in mainhand since the origin story on my human rogue. I still get crits from behind, which surprised the hell out of me. Maybe if I find a good dagger for mainhand I will use it, but right now, my tier 3 sword is better damage than the tier 5 dagger I just picked up in the mage tower.
But that's according to the character sheet...
I wish there was a more reliable way of checking your damage output. The dps tooltip thingy on the character sheet doesn't seem to factor in runes, and the combat text goes by so quickly, that I'm not even 100% positive how they work: does it just add a flat +5 (or whatever) damage on top of your normal damage? +5 base damage would be sweet, but something tells me that's not the case :P
Here's an example of how unintuitive the whole weapon damage system is to me. Forgive my crappy formatting, because I can't figure out how to make a table with bb code.
I just killed Uldred and I'm selling leftover stuff, trying to figure out which weapons to keep. My 4 weapon choices are:
Saw Sword (I'll call this "SS")
Tier 3
8.4 dmg
2.4 crit
2.6 arp
+1 dmg
+1% crit
Thorn of the Dead Gods (T)
Tier 2
4.4 dmg
3.3 crit
4.6 arp
+2 dmg
+2 arp
Long Sword (LS)
Tier 5
9.8 dmg
2.8 crit
3.2 arp
2 rune slots
Beastmaster's Dagger or some shit (B)
Tier 5
5.6 dmg
4.2 crit
6.4 arp
+10% crit/backstab dmg
2 rune slots
Obviously, trying to take into account the +10% crit/bs dmg mod is going to be difficult, so I have to just ignore that for now. I'm also not sure how to figure in the rune slots; even if I had two Grandmaster runes in each weapon... is that 10 damage every hit? How much do I normally hit for, anyways, before taking armor into account? Is it the number in the character sheet, which states "potential damage against an unarmored enemy" or something to that effect?
Here's what the character sheet has to say about my weapon combinations:
SS / T
41.8 combined damage
20.4% / 21.3% crit chance
8 / 10 armor penetration
LS / T
41.6 combined damage
19.8% / 20.3% crit chance
9 / 10 armor penetration
SS / B
39.3 combined damage
20.4% / 22.3% crit chance
6 / 10 armor penetration
LS / B
39.1 combined damage
19.8% / 21.2% crit chance
7 / 10 armor penetration
B / T
34.5 combined damage
21.2% / 20.3% crit chance
12 / 10 armor penetration
As you can see, the two dagger combination is the worst, aside from having high armor penetration on the mainhand. The two lower tier weapons really dominate (on paper, at least), due to their green damage bonuses, both of which obviously apply to both weapons - something I didn't realize until today - and are added to base damage, unlike runes - something else I didn't realize until today.
So, what do I do? Will the 4 rune slots be enough to make up for the lost damage and crits? Will it be way more damage? Isn't it risky, since, for example, using fire runes and fighting a fire creature will heal it instead of damage it? Or is that only with a very few enemies, or maybe only these certain ones in the mage tower? With Leliana, I used Paralyze runes, thinking to take advantage of Coup de Grace, and maybe Crushing Prison, but they barely ever seemed to proc. Alistair used spell resist and physical resist runes, which I'll do again with him...
I really can't see any disadvantage to using swords. I seem to be backstabbing with it... I make the backstab animation, and get a critical strike. If it's not truly a backstab, then I'll make sure I use a dagger in mainhand once I get more Assassin talents. Do you backstab with both hands? I really wish there was more detailed information available somewhere :\. I've been thinking about which weapons to use for an hour now, and I'm only level 9 :oops
Oh, and I wish you could see what debuffs you have on a mob. God, that would be really handy for me.
The difference is that they the damage for the weapons are calculated by different stats, and the weapon speeds factor in. There is a great thread where they've parsed this all out, but dagger/dagger with almost all cunning (enough dex to get the abilities you want) is by far the best - especially if you don't have the dex hotfix. dagger/dagger with all dex has a few other perks as well, but cunning dagger build is the best (if you are min maxing I should say)
ROzbeans
16 years ago
See, this is the difference between men and women. Women are fascinated by the romance - men like weapon stats.
KaAnna
16 years ago
Hahah, yeah I had those same thoughts.
Vulash
16 years ago
Yea - though I didn't look anything up until I had beaten it, and I'm not looking it up for my warrior. If I start min maxing I get too anal and it takes something away from it for me. I do it in MMO's (did I guess) but in these games it doesn't affect your gaming experience to not be the most powerful possible - aesthetic matters :D
ROzbeans;112092
See, this is the difference between men and women. Women are fascinated by the romance - men like weapon stats.
Yea - though I didn't look anything up until I had beaten it, and I'm not looking it up for my warrior. If I start min maxing I get too anal and it takes something away from it for me. I do it in MMO's (did I guess) but in these games it doesn't affect your gaming experience to not be the most powerful possible - aesthetic matters :D
Vulash
16 years ago
Oh and the person who wrote that thread was a chick :P (or a mangina lol) - I'll find it
Beli
16 years ago
Heh, I used to google to see what the best armor/weapons were in the game and then be dismayed by how terrible they looked. (Hey, if I'm spending 100+ gold on something, have a nice graphic at least!) Then I realized, shit, I've beaten the game when I knew fuck-all about armor and weapons. I'm just going to wear what's pretty because when all is said and done, the only thing left are screenshots. I want to admire my hot self instead of seeing a clown and thinking, "Well, I'm sure the stats were really good." =p
Oh, I just found out something new about Alistair that had me laughing hard. You know, if you sleep with him, blah blah blah, Leliana will talk to you about it and inquire about his performance. I had always talked to her about this in camp, but I found out that if you talk to her when you're out and about and Alistair's in the group, you get more dialogue options. You can tell Leliana that he takes directions well and she'll start giggling and Alistair will ask why you two are laughing. You can answer him in three different ways, but one of the options is flat out telling him the truth. Leliana will say something like we're talking about you in bed, no big deal. Alistair will get flustered and say, "My what? Maker's breath, what is wrong with you women!" I really gotta see this for myself!
Oh, I just found out something new about Alistair that had me laughing hard. You know, if you sleep with him, blah blah blah, Leliana will talk to you about it and inquire about his performance. I had always talked to her about this in camp, but I found out that if you talk to her when you're out and about and Alistair's in the group, you get more dialogue options. You can tell Leliana that he takes directions well and she'll start giggling and Alistair will ask why you two are laughing. You can answer him in three different ways, but one of the options is flat out telling him the truth. Leliana will say something like we're talking about you in bed, no big deal. Alistair will get flustered and say, "My what? Maker's breath, what is wrong with you women!" I really gotta see this for myself!
ROzbeans
16 years ago
I caught myself thinking, 'Maker's breath' while annoyed with something. =x
Mileron
16 years ago
Yet another example of how strange I am. :)
ROzbeans;112092
See, this is the difference between men and women. Women are fascinated by the romance - men like weapon stats.
Yet another example of how strange I am. :)
Den
16 years ago
Well, you do like those stats...you're just not limited to those alone :winky
Mileron;112106
Yet another example of how strange I am. :)
Well, you do like those stats...you're just not limited to those alone :winky
Vulash
16 years ago
I am - I don't even play the game I just crunch numbers
pharren
16 years ago
I'm just trying to figure out why my Tier 2/3 weapons are better than my Tier 5 weapons. Fuck all y'all.
ROzbeans
16 years ago
You know what bugs me? When there's armor collision. I just wanna fucking reach out and postwork it. :shh
pharren;112129
I'm just trying to figure out why my Tier 2/3 weapons are better than my Tier 5 weapons. Fuck all y'all.
You know what bugs me? When there's armor collision. I just wanna fucking reach out and postwork it. :shh
pharren
16 years ago
That bothers me too. And elf hair sticking through elf ears. And Bodhan Fedic's hand skewering his forearm.
KaAnna
16 years ago
Gah.. Armor clipping and hair clipping bug the heck out of me too.
pharren
16 years ago
ANSWERING MY OWN QUESTIONS THANKS FOR PLAYING
Yes. It shows up like this:
27
+5
+5
Right now, I hit from 10-30 (non-crit) depending on what I'm fighting, so two Grandmaster runes is like a 30% dps increase. I didn't realize it before, but Morrigan's Frost Weapons or whatever its called is like another 18 damage right now (level 11)... which is pretty big. That explains why Leliana was such a monster on my first playthrough; I had the Flame Weapons thing on my main character and Morrigan's Frost Weapons going at all times. Once I got her to level 15 or so, it seemed nearly every hit was a critical, plus the two elemental procs...
I still don't understand the numbers displayed on the character sheet. It says it's adjusted for weapon speed, but I think that's a lie :(
if I had two Grandmaster runes in each weapon... is that 10 damage every hit?
Yes. It shows up like this:
27
+5
+5
How much do I normally hit for, anyways, before taking armor into account?
Right now, I hit from 10-30 (non-crit) depending on what I'm fighting, so two Grandmaster runes is like a 30% dps increase. I didn't realize it before, but Morrigan's Frost Weapons or whatever its called is like another 18 damage right now (level 11)... which is pretty big. That explains why Leliana was such a monster on my first playthrough; I had the Flame Weapons thing on my main character and Morrigan's Frost Weapons going at all times. Once I got her to level 15 or so, it seemed nearly every hit was a critical, plus the two elemental procs...
I still don't understand the numbers displayed on the character sheet. It says it's adjusted for weapon speed, but I think that's a lie :(