ROUND 6 - OOC dicussion

Well I honestly wasn't trying to be mean, but I don't see any other way to interpret all of that crazyness, and honestly enough is enough. It's just not helping us either way - and surely that has to mean she's mafia.

Did I not say 'do not mafia angry?' Vudu, come on, don't fan the flames. Vulash, I know you're talking about in game, but let's keep the murderous killing to me please? I got a reputation to protect here!

Vulash Roz

Sorry Roz! Anyway - I stand by my lynch opinion!

Look, I smooched you!

Go ahead, lynch me. You'll be killing another innocent person instead of Mafia.

You can toss together whatever "clues" you find convenient to pull together, stitching together a patchwork quilt of guilt to lynch me. I know the truth, and Roz would write something enjoyable to read

And as far as being useless... You're right. I am useless. I vote for who I believe to be guilty, based off of how I interpret the clues and evidence. Whether my votes are for or against the majority doesn't really matter, I am only a voter.

And for knowing how I'm not the Sheriff? You can never know for certain what anyone in the game is, without breaking the rules. I know what I am, and that's enough for me. I wasn't able to do much of anything earlier this week because of prior commitments, but I am going to be active from here out (Unless this game manages to stretch all the way to the end of August, cuz that's finals time and I might be spacey)

I invite you all to gather every piece of evidence you have against me. I am not at fault for any of the Mafia killings, and I doubt you'd find evidence concrete enough to prove without a doubt that I could possibly be involved.

Before I go through and look for potential clues, I wanted to throw a few ideas out there. I've run these by enough people that I think I'm safe in posting them without sending anyone into a killing frenzy with me as their primary target.

CLUES BLUES

I keep seeing clues in the lynches that potentially point to Mafia members. I don't really want to go into too many specifics because of the volatile atmosphere right now, but I'll say that a lot of them have to do with numbers; the same numbers we see in the Mafia hits. "3 or 4" and "6" show up, as do some others. Who's to say that Roz isn't putting clues in the lynches as well as the Mafia hits? And I don't just mean clues as to the lynchee's role.

And another note on the topic of clues... it seems everyone I've asked about it has an unspoken, unarticulated expectation that if we successfully lynch a Mafia member, we are going to see it plastered all over a billboard with angels singing from on high (or demons from the depths; who knows) and fireworks and all kinds of shit to make it obvious. Why would it have to be obvious? It was pretty obvious in Nadiya's lynch scene... but maybe Roz was doing us a favor, or maybe she was just going with the flow after Nadiya's farewell post. I don't see why we are expecting this to happen again.

THE NUMBER GAME

Numbers, numbers, numbers, all over the damn place. Yeah, some might just be math clues aimed at Vulash. But it's the same numbers over and over for the most part, especially "3 or 4" and "6". We saw "6" a lot at the beginning, along with "3 or 4", and now we just see "3 or 4", with emphasis on "4".

We generally assume there were 6 Mafia to start. Since the Jayden kill apparently featured "3 or 4" Mafia members, and then "4" was mentioned repeatedly in the Professor kill (and I believe even in the Myraan lynch), we assume there are 4 Mafia remaining.

So, tell me. If Nadiya was one, who was the other? Why don't we know? There was no billboard or fireworks...

ROLE REVERSAL

From the Myraan lynch, people seem to be assuming she was Townie. This assumption seems to be based solely on another assumption; that of the voice at the end being the voice of Luc, or the voice of Alex, but telling her she's been a naughty girl and is going to Hell after all. That would make sense, according to our current society's conception of the God of Christianity, and it's Devil. But this Alex, and this Luc, they are not your parents' religious figures. Alex is, for all intents and purposes, the "bad guy". Luc is trying to save humanity. Alex is portrayed as being cold and callous... just like the voice at the end of Myraan's lynch. Granted, it might be Alex refusing her entry into Heaven. But could it not also be Alex accepting her into Heaven, but saying, hey, guess what, I'm the bad guy, and Heaven is Hell? Maybe in this fantasy world, Hell is a place with flowers and sunshine and rainbows and scantily-clad women serving you calorie-free alcoholic beverages while you relax in the shade on the shore of some tropical island.

How do we know? Not saying I believe it, but Myraan might

have been Mafia. We don't know. We need to keep that in mind when we read future scenes. People are expecting to see the blinking "MAFIA HERE!" sign that might not exist.

We may also need to re-read the kill scenes with that one basic fact in mind: "Good" and "Evil" may be totally reversed, not just in their incarnations but in the character's evaluations within the scenarios. At this point, it may just turn out to be a waste of time, but I am trying to be open to any and all possibilities. Our current method of looking for/at clues is apparently a failure.

That's actually a really good point. Well, the whole post, but particularly this. I think most, if not everyone, have forgotten that God is Bad and Satan is Good (essentially) in this game... and that this IS a giant game for them, neither one really care about the players aside from using them to win. I found a really excellent story on another forum that this kinda reminds me of.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=118771

I have my sights set on Victor, because it's the same situation there as with Shutupsara except I feel Victor is more likely to be mafia. I believe he's not helping the townie cause and he's handing the mafia an extra vote whether he's mafia or not. I've already touched on my reasoning for suspecting Victor is mafia but I'll recap, without going into the little verbal cues but again based on the mafia's actual actions and what we know about them:

Victor is a big fellah, somewhat imposing. Someone strong enough to block a door that another person is throwing their weight onto, someone intimidating.
Victor knows his way around a gun, and furthermore understands how sharpshooters operate.
Victor is an instructor in close quarters combat – all the kills have occurred in tight spaces.
Victor carries a folding tactical knife – does that make a snapping sound when opening and closing?
He has “slowly lost his grasp of what it was to be a decent and honorable man” and has no problem watching men and women die.

Now the big con in all of this is the possibility that the evidence for Keriath might point to other people (like Vudu, especially), and, like I’ve said before, if you make a bio that features lots of killing for a game that features lots of killing, you’re gonna look guilty. Also, one thing that hasn’t been featured in any of the kills is demolition, which is Victor’s other specialty. But it's not like Roz is going to write a kill that's all 'the killer took out his tactical knife and cut his victim, then shot him in the head with his rifle and, to finish the job, exploded him.'

Explosions! .. would be a good way to make people THINK that it's him.. but in reality, it's someone who's watched too many Michael Bay movies.

I wholly agree with this. It's easy to get sucked into clue finding mode and start seeing clues everywhere (this morning I thought I found a clue in a news article ) but there is no reason to expect to know what a person's role is after they die.

Finally - I thought Shutupsara was not playing anymore, so I didn't include her in the breakdown I did. Looking at her bio, I'm not convinced by the scars on throat and hands being a link to the joker clue. There are some wordy things that could possibly fit, but really the main thing that makes her suspicious is her /ooc behavior. It could be a matter of outlook though - really, I think Sara's main downfall is pride. Townies are supposed to come together and work as a team to bring down the mafia, but I get the sense that Sara is more interested in being a lone rock star in this game than in her team winning (if in fact she's a townie). She's stated that she's good at this game in RL and likes to be the last man standing - she's not going to consider a townie win a victory if she gets killed.

For the record, I think there's some pride in all of us - I know I'm guilty of it, of thinking that the townies are better off with me alive than dead, of not wanting to be hit if it's not going to prove anyone's innocence or guilt, if I'm not even going to be taking one for the team. Vulash has some of that too - I think he'd cop to it.

So, that's the charitable (though I guess maybe still not nice, sorry) interpretation of Sara's behavior.

If I'm wrong, by all means, prove me so .

I kinda gave up on the other Townies, tbqh, when I saw how easily people were swayed towards general herdism. I fell for it too, at first, but I can't let myself be manipulated like that anymore. I'd love to be able to trust people, but that's really not the name of the game. I am a proud beast, and because of that I try to live up to what I think is right, even in blood-thirsty games lol. I really don't think that a Townie win without me would be hollow, I think that the Townies are being manipulated into killing each other. I'd love it for us to win, regardless of my rate of decomposition at the time I just can't trust anyone, and therefore don't share my super-secret clues. But if I know I'm going to be lynched, I will all of my findings before Roz drops the axe, so to speak

Also: Don't walk on cement in Phoenix barefoot in the summer, even hours past sundown. It leaves 2nd degree burns and giant blisters on your feet that make it pretty much impossible to walk.

EDIT: I like being the last Mafia/Witch standing, selling out my team members. It's really, really evil and fun xD

This is most illogical.

I will readily admit my pride. I have also discussed the possibility of trying to take a bullet to let a few more important people live during this game (at various points in the game). I've also tried to setup game plans that will continue to work in case I'm dead so I can take the bullet and still feel like I accomplished something. I also tried to help the townies despite knowing I couldn't trust other people. I'd really rather not have myself compared with any plan that has thrown their own team under the bus, or happens to be on the other team. I also don't buy excuses for not considering a townie victory a victory if you're townie - and for not at least attempting to help at all, and further, hurting your teams cause by throwing out wild accusations, lying about your role, etc, etc.

Sara is still my top choice for lynch, but I'm considering all the options. I want to win this game, and I'm not going to let emotion dictate that.

/sigh omg was just trying to take the mote out of my eye before taking the massive fucking beam out of sara's. I brought up your name because I know you'll cop to the ego thing too, didn't want to make a mean dogpiling pick on sara post.

Anyway, sara, so not going to prove me wrong then. And why only spill if you're going to be lynched when you have a chance of being hit by the mafia every day? Unless you know you don't have a chance of being hit by the mafia. Because, like, you are. The mafia. Or something.

Well I wasn't upset about you saying that at all. I WILL admit to having pride/arrogance lol. I was just making sure the distinction was clear - more because of her response than yours. I felt like she took it as a means to excuse not helping.

Somebody tell me - not because I'm trying to be dramatic, but because I'm supposed to be working right now and I drove all the way back to the station so I could type this on a real computer keyboard in the break room instead of on my phone - what round was it when Sara gave up on the Townies? Was it the same round we lynched the one known Mafia member? Wouldn't that be convenient? A nice diversionary tactic to claim to be the Sheriff but not give up any information, because nobody can be trusted?

By simply claiming to be the Sheriff, you made yourself a target. What difference would it make whether or not you told everyone your IDs? I don't like this fucked up reverse-hostage situation or whatever this is that you've set up with your supposedly game-changing super-secret knowledge. It makes no sense to me, AND it pisses me off, because you are openly manipulating us in the crudest manner possible.

"I don't mind if I die, as long as we win, but you can't have my super-secret Sheriff knowledge unless you lynch me, because I don't trust anyone [the implication of which is that you don't want to die after all]."

Let me guess what your super-secret information is:

All the males are Mafia, and that's why we are out to lynch all the women.



I feel discussing this again is a huge waste of time. I need to go back to work.

Bang on. Does it really matter, at the end of the day? Gongaa was running around claiming to be the SK until we lynched the real one. That was pretty damn weird too The way I see it, there's just as big a case for lynching him as there is for Sara if you're just going off OOC posts, and let's not forget the massive ZOOKEEPER neon flashing sign in his bio.

edit: And for the record, let's say we give Sara the benefit of the doubt. That she's a rogue townie, like Rambo, running around independently. The fact that she's not playing as part of a team is no reason to lynch her since losing any townie is a bad thing. If she genuinely didn't feel comfortable divulging whatever info she's got (regardless of how much hard-fact there is there), at the point that you're about to be lynched, it really doesn't matter any more. So there is perfectly good logic there. I rather suspect that if she were mafia, she'd be trying harder to divert suspicion elsewhere rather than just voting her own way and not trying to convince others to vote similarly. Of course, it could all be some bluff, but I'm finding it hard to think of a way that bluff could ever pay off.

Okay dad, be all voice-of-reason on us then!

So are we. That's what makes it so... whatever it is. I am fresh out of tact.